Looking at fitting an air source heat pump heat pump

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #258666
    Brydo
    Participant

      I’ve just started my investigation into air-source heat pumps and home battery storage.

      So far I’ve concluded that my house could run on a pump without much in the way of radiator replacement and I’ve also enquired about a hybrid heat pump which allows the gas combo boiler to stay to top up the air source heat pump in very cold days. It also will continue to supply me with hot water rather than installing a tank.

      The battery storage is causing me a few problems, I have been concentrating on getting a price for a Givenergy 13kwh all-in-one 6-battery and have had a price from an installer. I have since spoken to another installer who has stopped using Givenergy batteries due to the problems they have had with them. He suggested getting a Tesla Powerwall stating “they were far superior and would only cost about £500 more that the equivalent Givenergy battery.

      I will be continuing getting prices and info but any input from you guys would be welcome.

      • This topic was modified 2 months ago by Brydo.

      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

    Viewing 25 replies - 26 through 50 (of 63 total)
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    • #259019
      Rich44
      Participant

        Supply and demand for labour I guess. It was the same over chargers

        #259433
        Brydo
        Participant

          I’ve managed to get a company out tomorrow to give me a price for an ASHP, solar panels and battery storage.

          I’m expecting a price in the region of £20,000 but I don’t think I’ve ever overestimated any companies price so probably in for a shock 🤞

          The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
          Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

          #268231
          Brydo
          Participant

            I eventually received a quote from the first installer, £21000 “gulp”.  I will hopefully get a couple of cheaper quotes by the end of this week.

            I was happy with the quote for the battery of £6,100, the solar was a bit expensive at £4,000+ so that leaves almost £11,000 to fit an ASHP hybrid unit. The unit, plus control, costs about £3,000 so £8,000 for 2 men to fit it over 1, maybe 2 days mmmmmmmmm???

            The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
            Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

            #268239
            joss
            Moderator

              Sounds like day light robbery to me Brydo.

              Joss
              Current car: Peugeot 308 GT Premium 1.2 Pure tech Petrol.

              #268241
              Avatar photostruth
              Participant

                ive no faith in these things, and will be hopefully getting a new gas one soon

                 

                Current Car: Hyundai Kona Premium EV...2 way 40kg hoist
                Last Car: Toyota C-HR Excel Hybrid...4 way 80kg hoist

                #268242
                Brydo
                Participant

                  Joss I think it’s because of the grants, the installers seem to think the grant is for them and just charge the client what it would cost without the grant.

                  Struth I understand your anxiety and to be truthful I can’t say I don’t share your uncertainty. I am keeping my combi boiler so it doesn’t really matter wether it works or not but I’m crossing my fingers and going forward with it, if, one of the quotes is in the mid to high teens.

                  The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                  Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                  #268265
                  kezo
                  Participant

                    What hybrid unit were you looking at?

                    #268286
                    Brydo
                    Participant

                      Looking to go for a bosch 7 or 9 kW hybrid ASHP although, after going through all my preferences the installer quoted me an 8kW Samsung Mono R20 EHS Unit. No idea why as we didn’t discuss this unit.

                      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                      #268302
                      kezo
                      Participant

                        The EHS is a ASHP system, typically used in the retrofit of existing properties, as a replacement for gas boilers. The EHS is one of a growing number of systems that is able to provide upto 70c for heating purposes and therefore suitable for older existing rads. The EHS is not a Hybrid system!

                        It looks like they completely ignored what you requested.

                        To become MCS certified takes only 4-6 weeks, then you need to join a certification body and a chartered trading standards body, so anybody can essentially become certified in little to no time and there are cowboys in the industry!

                        As your serious in having one fitted it may be benificial to look for someone who is previously qualified in electrical or gas work, such as NICEIC, NAPIT or Gas Safe registerd as their overall knowledge will be superior. For example I’m a qualified NICEIC registerd spark, so it made sense for me to be registered as a MCS installer through them.

                        You can check on any of the certification bodies websites if they are qualified in other aera’s (bottom of page in link below) or whether an installer has just jumped on the bandwagon with renewables.

                        https://mcscertified.com/installers-manufacturers/becoming-certified/#cert_bodies

                         

                         

                        #268341
                        Rich44
                        Participant

                          Tbh there are a lot of pants companies put there. The guys that fitted ours we locked out at one point because we were peed off with them. Bot different for us as this was a housing association but it was still a very large local heating, plumbing and electrical company. They do worse work than me as an amateur more often than not and they’re just as bad doing work on private homes too.

                          I’d go look at review sites and also Google the company do some background research.

                          To my mind if you explain your requirements and they just ignore it then they lose immediately if they’re doing that now are they going to listen to feedback during the install?

                          #269171
                          Brydo
                          Participant

                            I’ve now had 3 quotes and you won’t believe that the first quote was the cheapest. The final company quoted nearly £23,000. I’m having one final try next week, a guy is coming Tuesday or Wednesday and, my first impression on speaking over the phone, is he seems to know what he’s talking about with regard to ASHP, not sure about solar and batteries.

                            The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                            Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                            #269858
                            ScotT
                            Spectator

                              I’ve now had 3 quotes and you won’t believe that the first quote was the cheapest. The final company quoted nearly £23,000. I’m having one final try next week, a guy is coming Tuesday or Wednesday and, my first impression on speaking over the phone, is he seems to know what he’s talking about with regard to ASHP, not sure about solar and batteries.

                               

                               

                              What is the properties heat loss calculation ?(and was this a proper room by room)

                              #269869
                              Brydo
                              Participant

                                ScotT as it’s a hybrid system I am looking to install there is no need for a heat loss survey as the combi boiler kicks in if the Hybrid ASHP can’t cope when temperatures are really low.

                                I am looking to install a reasonably large hybrid ASHP at 9kw, I don’t think you can go much larger with a hybrid, which will cover most days except the really cold ones.

                                 

                                The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                #271893
                                Brydo
                                Participant

                                  So another installer arrived on Thursday, told me the company does ASHP, solar and battery install. He talked me through the ASHP install and said the solar guy would come on Friday. Friday came and went with no solar guy, phoned the ASHP guy, no answer, text him, no answer. So pretty disappointed.

                                  During the ASHP chat, he talked about where the “buffer tank” would be installed. I’ve had three installers pricing my job previously and none of them mentioned a “buffer tank” (BT). I’ve looked online and the advice is that a BT is not required so I will need to take that one up with him, if he ever answers his phone.

                                  I also chatted to him about my gas usage and whether or not that value (16500 kwh) could be used to calculate which size of heat pump would be suitable for my house based on that value. We keep the thermostat at 21.5*C so I assumed if we use the entire amount as heat output, ignoring the fact that some of it would be for hot water, he would be able to use this as a guide, but he said no it can’t be used.

                                  So this process is taking much longer than I anticipated and I’m beginning to wain in the process.

                                  The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                  Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                  #272147
                                  Brydo
                                  Participant

                                    Got a call from the installer “Sorry I didn’t get back to you last week” blah blah. “

                                    I take it the solar guy got in contact with you” no he didn’t.

                                    I sent your quote to you on Friday but “I’ve just noticed it was pinged back, I think I put the wrong e-mail address could you give me it again”. “I will send it to you straight away” two hours have passed and no email.

                                    The will to live is draining from me 😤

                                    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                    Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                    #272149
                                    kezo
                                    Participant

                                      He is not interested!

                                      Try a small family owned local firm.

                                      #272176
                                      Brydo
                                      Participant

                                        He came back to me at five o’clock………… with a price? No, with a bit of chat about options for the ASHP. He has estimated I need a 10kwh pump, the other installers estimated smaller pumps and I don’t really get why a pump that size is required.

                                        On line I watched a YouTube video where the presenter gave this rough guide to estimate pump sizes His guide was you take your yearly gas consumption in Kwh, 16,500 in my case, take the Coefficient of Performance (CoP)you estimate a unit will give and decide your usage by that number.

                                        So let’s say you take a COP of  3.3 devide 16500keh by this figure and it will provide a guide as to the size of pump required for your home.

                                        So 16500/3.3=5 so using this formula a 5kwh heat pimp could supply the same amount of energy into my house in a year as my combi boiler remembering the 16500kwh includes the provision of hot water.

                                        The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                        Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                        #272303
                                        Rich44
                                        Participant

                                          We went from oil so I can’t give you gas figures but we used roughly about 1000 litres of oil a year on average bad winter maybe more bit….

                                          We’re in a well insulated 1930s 3 bed semi

                                          Radiators are 5 large double wall, 1 triple wall, 4 small single

                                          Our ASHP was either 5kw or 8kw can’t remember but definitely no larger. This perfectly keeps the house at 19/20c I’ve turned it down to 19c and we’ve go[en used to it now but you totally avoid the peaks and troughs it just sits at that temp all day long.

                                          We’ve now got 4kw solar too and it’s more than enough for heating plus our base energy plus an appliance say dishwasher or washer plus our dryer at the same time as its also a heatpump one and sips power.

                                          This is our usage w/c 1st April

                                          #272306
                                          Rich44
                                          Participant

                                            I should add there’s 4 of us home I’m home most of the time. The kids are 15 and 17. They both have gadgets galore, big tv (inherited or used cheap) and PCs. So there’s 3 gaming PCs, 3 xboxes all that kinda stuff so when not at school or college that’s all on.

                                            There’s no EV charging in that mix as the new ones on order still.

                                            That’s also including 400 litres of hot water at 50C too either full tank or topping up depending on usage and a once weekly anti legionnaires immersion heater cycle to 65c or so

                                            Plus if I’m feeling cold I have a heated throw in the lounge

                                            #272348
                                            Brydo
                                            Participant

                                              @Rich44 I have a large house so if your ASHP is 8kwh then maybe a 10kwh+ would be what I need.

                                              There’s only me and the wife so a couple of showers each day is about all the hot water I use from the combi.

                                              The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                              Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                              #272356
                                              Rich44
                                              Participant

                                                Are you keeping the combi for hot water?

                                                If it were me I’d rather have an ASHP running at 75% capacity by having a bigger unit than a smaller one chuffing it’s nuts off.

                                                Vaillant now do an all in one unit with nearly no plumbing with cylinder, expansion vessel etc in a unit that looks like a fridge freezer plus the heat pump outdoors then you have hot water and heating all in one tidy unit it doesn’t even need an immersion cycle to prevent legionnaires, if you wanted to switch completely. Ours is the older school cylinder expansion vessel all plumbed separately and they took an age to do all the plumbing by hand the unitower looks much better.

                                                Seeing as the guts of the system will be with you for decades I would go for the larger unit you have the option of adding radiators later that way too.

                                                After initial teething issues gotta say it runs well, keeps the house warm all the time, there’s no gets really hot then too cold, if you have a weather compensating add on that helps too and our electricity bill is quite reasonable with Agile and having the heating shut off between 4 and 7pm each day to avoid peak kwh charges.

                                                We keep ours down to about 15p/kwh and about £130 a month which includes paying for the extra winter usage

                                                #272360
                                                Brydo
                                                Participant

                                                  Yes it’s a hybrid system we are going for that’s why the large ASHP didn’t make sense. The hybrid ASHP keeps the combi for water and to step in with the radiators if the heat pump struggles on very cold days.

                                                  I’m trying to bring the wife along with me on this journey and she’s not keen on any changes, so keeping the combi as a backup is a way of keeping her happy. There’s nothing worse than the wife saying “I told you so”. Lol

                                                  The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                  Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                                  #272361
                                                  Brydo
                                                  Participant

                                                    What I’m looking for, even though I’m keeping the combi, is an ASHP that is capable of running the house 24/7 in all weather conditions but I’m finding it difficult to get installers who are experts in this field. The guys I’ve dealt with don’t seem to be that.

                                                    Can I ask how much your install cost and how many workers were on site and for how many days.

                                                    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                    Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                                    #272365
                                                    kezo
                                                    Participant

                                                      What I’m looking for, even though I’m keeping the combi, is an ASHP that is capable of running the house 24/7 in all weather conditions

                                                      How many rooms, insulation, heat loss, climate, desired indoor temperature, heat demand all play a part in the calculation.

                                                      What size is your house in sqm, cubic m?

                                                      There should be no guess work and a proper calculation be done.

                                                      https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Fmcscertified.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F04%2FMCS-Heat-Pump-Calculator-Version-1.10-locked.xlsm&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

                                                      #272368
                                                      Brydo
                                                      Participant

                                                        About 80 m2 on two levels, so 160 m2.

                                                        • This reply was modified 1 week ago by Brydo.

                                                        The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                        Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

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