Looking at fitting an air source heat pump heat pump

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #258666
    Brydo
    Participant

      I’ve just started my investigation into air-source heat pumps and home battery storage.

      So far I’ve concluded that my house could run on a pump without much in the way of radiator replacement and I’ve also enquired about a hybrid heat pump which allows the gas combo boiler to stay to top up the air source heat pump in very cold days. It also will continue to supply me with hot water rather than installing a tank.

      The battery storage is causing me a few problems, I have been concentrating on getting a price for a Givenergy 13kwh all-in-one 6-battery and have had a price from an installer. I have since spoken to another installer who has stopped using Givenergy batteries due to the problems they have had with them. He suggested getting a Tesla Powerwall stating “they were far superior and would only cost about £500 more that the equivalent Givenergy battery.

      I will be continuing getting prices and info but any input from you guys would be welcome.

      • This topic was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Brydo.

      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

    Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 63 total)
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      Replies
    • #258687
      joss
      Moderator

        Have you looked at the Octopus heat pump they are offering?

        https://octopus.energy/get-a-heat-pump/

        Joss
        Current car: Peugeot 308 GT Premium 1.2 Pure tech Petrol.

        #258701
        kezo
        Participant

          Hybrid systems would certainly be the better way to go with the UK’s less than airtight building fabric of older houses, compared to that of Nordic countries, who often have log burners as back up.

          Systems can be thermostatially controlled (bivalent) or tariff controlled, which know how much you pay for electric (smart) and switch between boiler and HP based on needs and the better way to go imo.

          HP’s are more efficient when the outside temperature is relevant to that of the inside temperature, higher outside temperature, the higher the efficiency, lower outside temperature lower the efficiency and so on.

          Looking at an heat pump efficiency vs temperature chart, will show this in more detail.

          Do remember that HP, similar to boiler installers are registered with different manufacturers so a Baxi registered installer will promote Baxi over other manufacturers. This also applies to battery storage systems, so a search around the net and user and trade relevant forums, will give you a good indication on each system. Don’t always except the cheapest quote and ensure trades are suitably qualified.

          Do take into account gas is on average 3 – 3.5 cheaper than electricity, so the payback time of having a heat pump installed, along with the costs to run a heat pump hybrid system compared to gas alone and importantly your age based on what benifit if any it will give you. I.E if your getting on a bit like @joss 😂 it may not be benificial. Joking aside it is smething to take onboard.

          As for battery storage Growatt, Victron and Solis along with others that may be worth looking into. MyEnergy Libi wouldn’t be my favourite. Perhaps @Oscarmax can share what he has as I forgot.

          In general LiFePO 4 (LFP) batteries are safer inside the house/loft. Although not affected to the extremes, they still hold their charge better inside, than outside in freezing temperatures. Your setup will depend, whether the battery serves as a means to power the house, car charger or both.

          Solar invertors put out a constant 230V, where as the grid is 230V + or – 10%, so you may notice a slight difference in pitch of electrical items on bttery power alone but, is normal and not detremental.

          Research is your best tool not only on the products but also the installation company.

           

           

          #258702
          Brydo
          Participant

            I haven’t joss but I want a hybrid pump and I don’t think the Octopus pump gives that option.

            I can get an interest-free loan and up to 75% of the cost of the pump, fully installed, up to a max of £7500, from the Scottish government. I think it’s the same in other parts of the UK. If I install a heat pump it also opens up an interest-free loan to install a home battery and if I install solar I will also get the interest-free loan and a grant of £2500.

            I am waiting for the heat pump company to give me a price and a price for solar at that point I can calculate whether or not it’s worth it financially.

            The electrician says it makes total financial sense and he is about to do it and he’s looked at all the current costs for air pumps and electricity costs and it’s a “no-brainer”. He already has solar and battery storage and his monthly DD to Octopus is £35. He lives in a three bed bungalow.

            He sells electricity back to the grid @15p per kwh when he produces more from his solar so he is delighted with his battery system and just want the air pump to get even more savings.

            The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
            Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

            #258703
            Oscarmax
            Participant

              We have solar panels and a solar battery, in October 2022 we added a SolaX 5.8 triple V2 battery and SolaX 5.0 AC inverter, the battery covers the majority of our need most of the year, in the winter we do import using Octopus Agile averaging around 12 pence @ kWh.

              I agree Givenergy have a terrible reputation, if the Tesla installation is only £500 more I would seriously go for it.

              Our SolaX installation cost £4,500 however they are now VAT free, adding an addition slave SolaX 5.8 battery would cost us just under £2,000, giving us 11.6 kWh.

              #258705
              Oscarmax
              Participant

                Hybrid systems would certainly be the better way to go with the UK’s less than airtight building fabric of older houses, compared to that of Nordic countries, who often have log burners as back up. Systems can be thermostatially controlled (bivalent) or tariff controlled, which know how much you pay for electric (smart) and switch between boiler and HP based on needs and the better way to go imo. HP’s are more efficient when the outside temperature is relevant to that of the inside temperature, higher outside temperature, the higher the efficiency, lower outside temperature lower the efficiency and so on. Looking at an heat pump efficiency vs temperature chart, will show this in more detail. Do remember that HP, similar to boiler installers are registered with different manufacturers so a Baxi registered installer will promote Baxi over other manufacturers. This also applies to battery storage systems, so a search around the net and user and trade relevant forums, will give you a good indication on each system. Don’t always except the cheapest quote and ensure trades are suitably qualified. Do take into account gas is on average 3 – 3.5 cheaper than electricity, so the payback time of having a heat pump installed, along with the costs to run a heat pump hybrid system compared to gas alone and importantly your age based on what benifit if any it will give you. I.E if your getting on a bit like @joss 😂 it may not be benificial. Joking aside it is smething to take onboard. As for battery storage Growatt, Victron and Solis along with others that may be worth looking into. MyEnergy Libi wouldn’t be my favourite. Perhaps @Oscarmax can share what he has as I forgot. In general LiFePO 4 (LFP) batteries are safer inside the house/loft. Although not affected to the extremes, they still hold their charge better inside, than outside in freezing temperatures. Your setup will depend, whether the battery serves as a means to power the house, car charger or both. Solar invertors put out a constant 230V, where as the grid is 230V + or – 10%, so you may notice a slight difference in pitch of electrical items on bttery power alone but, is normal and not detremental. Research is your best tool not only on the products but also the installation company.

                We are with Octopus Tracker for gas we are averaging less than 4p/kWh, our 2 bedroom bungalow is only 6 years old, we did look into air source heat pump but even with the government financial incentive we cannot seem to make the figures working in our favour.

                 

                #258707
                kezo
                Participant

                  @Oscarmax what is your battery storage manufacturer 🙂

                  #258712
                  Brydo
                  Participant

                    The problem with Tesla is I would need to install another inverter as it doesn’t have one within the unit whereas the Givenergy all-in-one does. I’ve been doing a bit of research into the Givenergy unit and “seemingly” the major problem was the connectivity but apparently this has been solved 🤔

                    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                    Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                    #258723
                    kezo
                    Participant

                      Givenergy all in one has better power output and is a tad more efficient than the powerwall 2. The powerwall 2 has an higher energy denisity which is down to battery chemistry difference’s MNC vs Givenergy is LFP. LFP is the more popular chemistry, that needs to rapidly charge and discharge. In my view LFP is a safer. However Tesla units aren’t bad.

                       

                      #258732
                      Brydo
                      Participant

                        Doing a bit more investigation and apparently to get the best out of a heat pump I should be getting 20kwh of battery storage. Could cost about £3000-£4000 to achieve that from the 13kwh in the all-in-one Givenergy 😔

                        Tesla now have a new Powerwall that has an inverter included but I think it will be far too expensive for me.

                        • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Brydo.

                        The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                        Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                        #258734
                        kezo
                        Participant
                          #258740
                          Brydo
                          Participant

                            My existing solar gives about 3,000 kwh and I’m looking to add another 1500/2000 kwh

                            The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                            Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                            #258741
                            Brydo
                            Participant

                              Great info kazo

                              The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                              Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                              #258744
                              Brydo
                              Participant

                                Sorry Kezo 👍

                                The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                #258749
                                kezo
                                Participant

                                  Its OK mate, your certainly not alone 🙂

                                  #258762
                                  Brydo
                                  Participant

                                    A few options

                                    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                    Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                    #258763
                                    Brydo
                                    Participant

                                      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                      #258765
                                      Brydo
                                      Participant

                                        The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                        Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                        #258766
                                        Brydo
                                        Participant

                                          The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                          Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                          #258769
                                          kezo
                                          Participant

                                            What grants are available?

                                            #258772
                                            Brydo
                                            Participant

                                              I’ve been told that the grant for a hybrid is less than a nonhybrid so need to call them tomorrow to find out.

                                              For a standard air source heat pump it’s 75% of the total cost up to £7500 and up to £9000 if you are in a rural location.

                                              If you go for heat pump, solar and battery storage you get a further grant of £2500.

                                              An interest-free loan is available, up to £5000 you have 5 years to pay, £5000-10000, 10 years to pay and over £10,000, 12 years to pay.

                                              The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                              Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                              #258889
                                              Rich44
                                              Participant

                                                We have a 1930s 3 bed semi at the coast. It’s been repointed and insulated etc and couple of years ago our oil heating was replaced with ASHP to start with we were angry and hated it especially when it slurped through over £200 extra in one month. After the settings were corrected and I turned off the immersion heater that was set to come on every day, thanks installer we got the hang of it and it keeps the house at a constant 19C to save money

                                                We are on Agile and have it shut off between 4 and 7 when electricity is peak and our avg is about 16p/kwh each month.

                                                I’d not go back to anything else, love ASHP now, love the fact radiators don’t get stupid hot, put kittens love the fa t they can use the curtains as bedding and sleep on the radiator without overheating too.

                                                We have a 400 litre tank for hot water and the ASHP on its own heats that to 55C or so.

                                                We also have solar panels now but they went in during December so don’t know how that’ll affect things yet. All thanks to our housing association really, they’re really aggravating in so many ways but they did a decent job on these 2

                                                #258952
                                                Brydo
                                                Participant

                                                  Rich44 that’s good to hear, your house, on the face of it, is the type they say would be difficult to heat with an ASHP so it’s great to know that you like it and that it works for you.

                                                  I’m having a few problems up here in Scotland getting proper accurate info. Installers are very busy so trying to get them out to me is causing a problem.

                                                  I am adding more solar and that causes problems for our DNO Scottish Power. They are taking up to 6 months to process an application at present.

                                                  Previous calls to the grant department suggested I would receive £2500 grant for battery storage and solar £1250 each but today a different agent said that is not the case the only benefit would be an interest-free loan. Can’t understand how two agents in the same office are giving different information.

                                                  Not sure about your financial situation but home battery storage is a great way to reduce your ASHP costs, filling the battery at cheap overnight rates then running the ASHO on the cheap electricity during the day.

                                                  The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                  Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                                  #258957
                                                  kezo
                                                  Participant

                                                    Can’t understand how two agents in the same office are giving different information.

                                                    Are you sure it wasn’t Motability you rang!

                                                    https://www.mygov.scot/energy-saving-grants

                                                    #258991
                                                    Brydo
                                                    Participant

                                                      Just had a second quote for the installation of the Givenergy All-In-One 6. The first quote was £6,700 and this one is £8345. Now the unit CAN BE BOUGHT online, minus VAT, for £5,300. The guy who gave me the first price said “it’s usually a day’s work for one man”.

                                                      How on earth can these guys sleep at night I’m looking at paying at least £1,400 to an electrician for one days work or £3000 if I went for the other guy.

                                                      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                                      #259007
                                                      kezo
                                                      Participant

                                                        Now the unit CAN BE BOUGHT online, minus VAT, for £5,300. The guy who gave me the first price said “it’s usually a day’s work for one man”.

                                                        From the 1st of this month through to 2027, the VAT rate for solar battery storage was reduced inline with Solar panels – VAT is no longer applied on the cost of the batter or installation, if my memory serves me right. That said Batteries added to existing solar systems are subject to VAT

                                                        You would therefore be better adding extra solar panels and battery at the same time and getting the installer to intergrate with your existing panels. Lok into it.

                                                        However additional materials to enable the installation of the battery inclusive of switch gear &Givenergy Gateway for backup etc, are charged accordingly,   the certification, registering, commissioning, monitoring setup, should also be considered ontop of the full installation cost.

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