Issues with brand new car and built in hoist….any advice please?

This topic contains 16 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  ChrisK 1 day, 17 hours ago.

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  • #72569 Reply

    Smoo
    Participant

    I picked up a new Mazda CX5 yesterday, my first car on the motability scheme.

    I visited the mazda garage several times and met with the technician along with my scooter and wheelchair who would install a hoist. He assured me that I would only need to take the arm rests off the scooter to get it in the height of the boot and that I would only need to recline one of the cars back seats which would mean if I needed both scooter and wheelchair the chair would fit on the back 2 remaining seats! Or could still get passengers in.

    They collected my car and scooter and I picked it up yesterday and noticed that the scooter in the boot but it had to seats reclining, as there was no one present from the hoist company the garage said it was probably just the way they put it in!

    This morning I went out to the car to have a ‘play’ with the hoist and I cant get it in the boot of the car with only one seat reclining, which if this is not rectified might be a problem. The CX5 has 3 seats but if you recline the one behind the passenger seat the middle one automatically reclines.  the one behind the drivers side you can just recline the one, but that is where all the hoist “bumpf” is sitting so the scooter won’t fit on that side with just the one seat down! So which ever side I sit the scooter, I am having to put both seats down! I cant get my wheelchair in at the same time unless I was to take apart the scooter…but they have also prevented me doing that now too!!!

    I then discovered other issues which are  big problem for me!

    The technician told me there wouldn’t be any bars sticking out of scooter for the hoist go attach and yet there is. this bar/add securely bolted on for the hoist is now stopping the scooters battery from being removed, so the only way I can charge it is by bringing the whole scooter in the house to charge….something I made clear I could not be doing, I don’t have the room for a scooter charging and me moving around the house in the wheelchair.  The scooter manufacturer says to charge the battery at all times when not using the scooter. I also made it very clear that I would still want the option of dismantelling the boot scooter in to the 5 individual pieces at times so when I have passengers the scooter can go in the boot in its parts and i can get the use of all my back seats.  I bought a new boot scooter for this car and also reminded them that as it is still under its warranty they would have to check if any major adjustments were done as it would avoid my warranty… I found several parts of the scooter in a little bag!

    So I’m now in a panic.  I can’/ get hold of the hoist fitters until Monday, and first thing I will be calling them.  but i really want to go knowing what my rights maybe if i cant get this resolved successfully? The problem is the fitter is 1hour 20min drive away and my garage is an hour, I have no doubt I will need to get the car and scooter back to them, but I don’t know where I stand if they cant put it how they told me it would be. Is it down to the fitter or down to the garage for selecting them?

    I love, love, love the CX5 but I paid nearly £2000 for the advance payment of the car, the hoist and mats for the car to protect it from the scooter…and with my monthly payments on top that’s an awful lot of money if the setup makes my life no easier and the car not suitable.

    Its really frustrating how I did everything right, checking with the car and taking the scooter to check it would fit with the hoist fitter present, explaining exactly what I would need. I made several trips back and forth to finalise bits and pieces, I thought it was all going to be such a help and make such a difference, but at the moment its is anything but!! I waited to sell my old car until I knew the new one had been moved to the hoist fitters with my scooter and back to the mazda garage to collect…. I thought it would be ‘safe’ to do so!!

    I don’t want to call motability until I know if there is something that cant be fixed?

    Has anyone got experience of things like this going wrong and what I could do if these problems aren’t sorted out…other than find a nice big glass of brandy!!!!

     

Viewing 16 replies - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
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  • #72577 Reply

    JS (justsaying)
    Moderator

    Welcome smoo

    unfortunately I think this is one for Motability, it seems you were wrongly advised, if the vehicle is unsuitable then they will allow you to change. But there may also be an alternative for the seats to be adapted should that solve the issue. Motability deal with this on a one to one basis and are very approachable and good at finding a solution. Good luck and please keep us informed.

    #72588 Reply

    Mike
    Participant

    Hi Smoo,

    As JS says above, one for Motability! Hopefully they maybe able to solve it to your satisfaction.

    I think where part of the problem may lie is that the CX5 is a relatively new model. As such, experience of fitting hoists and which combination of scooters/chairs/hoists fit in this vehicle could be lacking. This is in comparison with car models that have been knocking around for quite a while where the hoist manufacturers will have built up experience of what fits into what, with what and how it fits.

    I made the mistake a few years ago of setting my heart on as particular ‘new to market’ car, only then to find my power-chair and a hoist (in any combination) would not fit (albeit at first glance, and crudely using a tape measure, the boot did seem big enough). Also despite what both the car dealer and hoist installer also ‘thought’!

    Thus, I had to tackle the problem from the other way around.

    I had ‘X’ power chair, which was yy X yy X yy dimensions and weighed almost 110kg. Thus I contacted the hoist manufacturers (Autochair, Elap, Brig-Ayd etc etc) and asked each of them which specific vehicles they had fitted my make/model of chair into. Which hoist they had used and how it fitted (rear seats up/down etc, chair dismantled/part dismantled/seat folded, transverse or lengthwise etc).

    I was also told hoists often can only be fitted onto one particular side of a vehicle and are often not interchangeable, either due to their construction, or if there is something fitted into one particular side of a vehicle by the manufacturer which blocks access to ‘hard points’ to which the hoist needs to installed (for example, the internal bits of the fuel filler pipe may bar the use of ‘hard points’ on one side of the vehicle).

    Only once I had this information, could I make a choice of vehicle, safe in the knowledge the chair/hoist combination would fit to my satisfaction.

    Your situation is even more acute bearing in mind the need to be able to transport both a scooter and wheelchair yet retain rear seat usage.

    One point I feel is worth making, is that a lot of modern SUV’s rooflines slope downwards towards the rear. This in turn limits the height of the aperture through which the chair/scooter, complete with its associated hoist and balance bar above can be swung through.  Thus the need to break down the chair/scooter is often a necessity.

    It is not an easy predicament to solve, but not totally unachievable. It may just mean that the actual choice of vehicle could be somewhat limited. As the chap from one hoist manufacturer told me ‘Car manufacturers consider a whole host of things when designing vehicles. Sadly, fitting a wheelchair hoist is not one of them’.

    Mike

    #72589 Reply

    ChrisK
    Participant

    I really do sympathise with you Smoo because I spent hours upon hours if not day’s, month’s looking at all the aspects of getting the combination of scooter/hoist/car boot space together and did not know if my sums were right until I had the car in my hands.

    Even the Motability roadshows where your supposed to be able to get advice can be a let down because like the car dealers, they just want a sale and will give you the answers you want to hear or they simply don’t understand what your asking them and to be honest if its your first hoist as it was with me, I know what I want but its hard getting what you want across to sales folk who are perfectly abled.

    Hopefully the hoist installer can sort this for you but mean while, not knowing anything about Mazda’s, if the rear seats are of the 30/30/30 slide and recline sort, these seats can usually be slide forward by as much as you need to get your scooter to fit in. It’s how I get my scooter in my KIA (thought I don’t use the arm rest so there not fitted) but it just makes it a tiny bit less room for the passengers who sit in those two seats but its still comfortable for them and normally still the same room you would get in a standard five seat car.

    With the battery it sounds like they have connected the cross member to far down the scooter seat stem and hopefully the installer can raise that up and shorten the connecting straps an easy enough job if the scooter has the space.

    I don’t understand why the installer was not there when you collected the car as I would think that was standard procedure and my installer was.

    I hope they fix this for and I’d let Motability know like JS said then their pre-armed with the situation if the installer can’t fix this for you.

    #72592 Reply

    Smoo

    Thanks so very much for taking the time to share your thoughts, I really, really do appreciate it, and the advice about moving forward to look at other cars if necessary is something  I will definitely follow. I guess my naievity in these things meant I went with what I was told and trusted I had done everything correctly to be sure everything would be ok.

    It’s one of those things where I wanted to give the hoist fitter the chance to see if it was simply fixable before calling motability.  I dont know if him blocking the battery in so I can never remove it to charge is a normal thing or just a mistake ….he knew I would be wanting to take it on and off the scooter to charge it and flat pack it.

    I must admit I was a little concerned about the boot dimensions of the CX5 and it was why I made several phone calls to the hoist fitter and garage and numerous trips back and forth to the garage to check everything would fit….and I even made sure there was a cx5 model of the exact same spec I was getting to try and check measurements.  I even took the specs of the scooter I hadn’t actually purchased when I looked at the CX5 to be sure the scooter would be a good fit in case I should find a different scooter.  I only purchased that after I was told it would be fine and then once I bought it I took it straight to the garage to check its fit in the CX5 with the fitter….even making sure I hadn’t actually used it so I didn’t put any dirt from it in the showroom car!!!!

    The fitter did mention some hoists wouldn’t work, which is why he went with bryg ayd and when you say about the sloping back area, the CX5 is definitely one of those cars.  I only have about 5cm to play with above the height of the scooter and hoist to the top of the  boot and I think if it had a square boot I wouldn’t have the seat problems either as the scooter could sit further to the back. I had a 2007 ford cmax before this that I think actually had more boot space as it was  a much squarer shaped boot, with a dropped boot floor. I could get the scooter flat packed in its boot and the wheelchair across then back seats without issue, but without a hoist.

    Thanks again, I will definitely update when I get some answers.  I am praying and keeping everything crossed I can keep the CX5 and resolve the issues, I dread the alternative and the idea I have to keep it for the three years if the problems can’t be resolved inside the car and that I can never remove the scooter battery to charge it or flat pack it again….. aaahhhhh!!

    I guess we learn by our mistakes!!

     

     

     

     

     

    #72601 Reply

    ChrisK
    Participant

    That’s interesting what you say about the Brig-Ayd hoist because my installer said the opposite so again the cynical me is saying “are they on a commission from the manufacturers”.

    In my case they fitted a Autochair hoist instead of the cheaper Brig-Ayd I ordered because Autochair needed less headroom than the other.

    I know they weren’t having me on because 5 months before I cancelled a VW Touran that I had ordered a Brig-Ayd for and that installer is 200 miles away from the local one that installed the Autochair I have now and they both independently sighted the Brig-Ayd as not suitable for the Touran or KIA Carens that both have very similar footprints and apertures.

    With the charging on the scooter I think that very few users would be able to do that unless your lucky enough to have a house is built in or the garage is free-standing with mains electric but even then it would be difficult in my case to get to the on board charging socket while the scooter is in the car.

    I’ve charged my batteries a thousand time but have only ever used the on board system about ten times when I stay in Premier Inn’s accessible rooms where I drive the scooter right into the room.

    Your right there about learning by our mistakes as I had 57 years of good health with hardly getting a common cold but been disabled now for 11 years and 2 weeks to the day and I still get caught out every now and again.

    Hope you get this resolved.

    #72607 Reply

    Mike
    Participant

    Hi again Smoo,

    From reading your posts above, I do get the idea you really like the CX5 (it is after all, a great car) and I hope your situation can be resolved with it.

    If it cannot and another vehicle is the only solution, then Motability should return your Advance Payment to you on a pro-rata basis. As you have only just got the car then it should be most of the Advance Payment.

    They can also waive the normal £250 ‘Early Termination fee’ and probably waive any costs associated with the hoist (albeit I am not 100% sure about this part, but it is worth asking if needs be).

    As I said I hope it can be resolved with the CX5, but it is worth knowing what can happen if the CX5 cannot be suitably adapted.

    Mike

    #72623 Reply

    Vinnie
    Participant

    I feel for you Smoo, had a similar hoist problem when I got my Seat ST, asked for a certain  hoist to be fitted and was then told with only 20 mins to make up my mind that the one I wanted wouldn’t fit and I had to have a bigger hoist!

    Not knowing what to do I took their word for it but the hoist was far too big for the car and kept catching the inside, after a week of the fitters trying to adjust the hoist, I’d had enough and rang Motability, they were brilliant, had a specialist troubleshooter who told me to get a second opinion and when that came back, yes it will fit, Motability arranged for them to take the old one out and put the one in I asked for originally.

    Ring Motability and ask for it to be escalated, and they will sort it out, I can only give high praise for them.

    Good luck.

    #72629 Reply

    Smoo

    I just have to say first, this is really a fantastic forum with all you lovely helpful peeps….Saturday when all these problems reared their ugly heads I admit I was really in a panic thinking what to do and if there was anything I could do.  I can’t express how grateful I am to you all for your support and the posts with so much help in them.  I feel so much more confident now to tackle this with clear pointers as to what to do.

    I did this afternoon once the rain had stopped take everything out again from the CX5 and with some help from a lovely neighbour try and reload so I could have a complete and full list of problems I am having in case I was having a really blonde moment (sorry fellow blondes!!!) and was just missing something or doing something wrong.  The battery is without doubt not coming out of the scooter, but I thought I should just try the rest again…third time lucky….sadly not!!

    I have found that there is no way at all my wheelchair and scooter can go in at the same time into the boot even with all the rear seats down in what I believe is a very safe manner, and moreso something  I could do on my own.  The only way is the scooter pushed by hand literally in to the back of the drivers seat having detached it from the hoist ….which I couldn’t do on my own. the hoist will not move it in that far and I dont know how safe that would be driving like that.  the wheelchair won’t fit lying flat, so would somehow have to lean it upright against the scooter for support, only once I remove its seat and push it together but as its front castors get locked together and it makes it unpushable, it really has to be lifted to push it forward enough. The hoist will not lift my wheelchair high enough on it’s own to get it in the boot in an upright position. my neighbour had to manually lift it higher after the hoist lifted it to get it in.. let’s just say  impossible for me to do.  The hoist fitter just told me to tie some string around the hoist arm and wheelchair to lift it,  but even with that as tight to the Hoist arm as I can get it, it won’t go high enough. The hoist needs to lift higher than the top of the boot, but cant then move it in!!

    The only way I could get both in the car is to take the scooter apart as much as it will now allow, including removing the wheels and and motor, remove its seat,  so it has a lower highest point for the tiller fold lower, remove the hoist arm and straps from the hoist, then pull and push it by hand around in the boot so its remaining body now sits across the width of the boot with only about 3cm spare..so lots of small movements back and forth and its heavy!! Then somehow lift all the bits I had to take off into the boot by hand, as the hoist can’t lift them and fit them where there is space around the scooter body.  Then with the back seats all upright have someone put the wheelchair across the lovely leather rear seats ….. OMG can you imagine how long that would take and if I could manage all that myself I wouldn’t be needing a hoist in the first place….I have cold sweats thinking about ripping leather seats!!!

    You are right I do love the CX5 it’s so comfortable and a smooth ride which I really, really need, and good room in the front as well as being an auto and petrol and for me a heated seat makes such a difference for my medical condition.  It is full of helpful gadgets and gizmos …someone pulled out right in front of me and the car actually stopped itself….wierd!  But I chose it on the fact they told me it was the biggest boot for what I needed without going for a much ‘larger car’ in body size than my old cmax and that it would all fit as I wanted. It is much higher and has big wheels but not much wider than the cmax. I live quite rurally with lots of narrow, bushy lanes and lots of holiday makers who dont seem to know how to drive in country lanes!  Saying that I could live without the gadgets and gizmos, I only got those because I ordered the car with the power tailgate so they came with the spec as did leather seats. I just believed what the garage and hoist fitter told me that all I wanted to be able to do could be done within this car!

    I did look at the ford Kuga and a Honda at the time (dec 2018) but couldn’t get a petrol auto in the Honda with a power tailgate and found the Kuga wasn’t good in the front seats for me.  What I have found now is all the cars seem to have gone up by around £1000 now in contribution than when I ordered mine in dec, including even the CX5. To find another £1000 now is not something I could do,  the new scooter cost me £1000 which I bought to fit this car!!

    I guess right now I have to concede if this car isn’t suitable and someone cant work their magic then I will have to be without until I can save some more £££s…. and then I become housebound until I can.  Its upsetting I thought I had covered all bases by asking and visiting everyone to check it all out before I went with the CX5.

    I really feel for you all who also have had issues, I hate to think of anyone else having such problems as I read.  It’s a big reassurance that motability appear to be so helpful….  and it’s great to hear problems have been solved for people.

    I hope by this time tomorrow I can come hear with some good news instead of me moaning on again.

    As before, grateful for everyone’s input and advice.

     

    Re the hoist manufacturers

    I find it frustrating how there seem to be differing advice regarding the different hoist makes. When I bought my car, i had to go out of my own county as my more local Mazda said they didnt have an auto CX5 to try.  it meant the Mazda garage i did visit arranged the hoist fitter in their county.  I wonder how different the advice would have been if I had been able to get a Mazda more county local to me. I know they would have used a different hoist fitting company, and the fact autochair was dismissed by my fitter might have been different with them….and who knows ????

     

     

     

    #72696 Reply

    Smoo

    update 

    So I called the hoist fitter this morning and explained the problems. I came away from the call with the impression the locked in battery is quite normal as it is the hoist bar on the scooter that will stop it coming out.  I told him so many times I have to be able to remove the battery at all times, if it cant come out it would be something that would make the car and hoist a complete waste as I cant charge it up!  I also explained about not being able to get the scooter and wheelchair in at the same time as they had said I could.  They said to take the car over to them and they’d have a look at it, but they also said they couldn’t go round making bespoke changes or such indivdual alterations.  To be honest I got the impression it wasn’t going to work in this car unless I was happy to carry on with the setup as it was but he would look to see if he could do something about making it possible to get the battery out.

    I did then call motability to let them know of the issues,  so I was sure what my options were if the fitter couldn’t do anything.  Those who have said how helpful they are, I completely agree. She then also rang the fitter to ask if they could come to me to look at it, but as I’d already arranged a family member to follow me over in their car to the fitter so I could leave the car and scooter with them, we went with that.  She did say if it wasn’t resolved that they could look at cancelling, and leave me with the Mazda for the few months until a different car was available.  Brilliant, big big relief, and so helpful.

    Anyway I have just got back from the fitter. I can’t say I am completely happy as I had hoped for everything to work as I had imagined and moreso as I had explained i wanted to be before going with the mazda. He did I tell me today he can’t perform miracles and sometimes you just  have to accept comprimises….. think I’m long past expecting miracles and spend years accepting comprimises….luckliy I’m someone who doesn’t easily get offended!

    Brushing that off we think we have worked out to how to get the scooter in whilst still retaining the use of part back seats to put the wheelchair in if I needed as there is no way the scooter and wheelchair will fit with the wheelchair lying on its side  or upright into the boot of the car, even with all the seats reclined!   The work around is to put the scooter in the boot  and the wheelchair folded up but sitting on the back seats, so putting it in through the back door, drivers side. Thw CX5 has a split rear seat if 60/40 but the 40 split is the one behind the driver, where I need it to be the other way round to get this to work. There is a metal joint on the central seat that clicks into the seat behind the front passengers and that cant be removed so as it is   there is no way of only reclining a single seat passenger side and having the 2 seats up driver side. That can be changed however by completely removing the central seat of the 3. I can put the scooter in the boot sitting behind the passenger seat which will be reclined and then will have the wheelchair sitting up on the rear seat behind the driver which is now up and now the central seat has been removed there is a flat surface to be able to put the wheelchair across.

    Obviously it’s not ideal and means if I need to use the back seats, I would now only ever have 2 seatss. If I need those seats either the scooter has to be broken down in to its parts and put in the boot and no wheelchair or the scooter comes out and the wheelchair goes in the boot, but where I would then put the scooter, I would have to investigate…..hopefully lovely neighbour might let it in his garage for a bit!!  The hoist will never be able to completely lift the wheelchair into the car give the cars height limit and if they lengthen the boom arm of the hoist to make it lift higher, it would then be too long to sit inside the car! It does mean I will need someone to lift the wheelchair in and out of the car for me, but I can get to use the scooter by using the hoist on my own.

    We did discuss whether I should look at another car.  He said unless I went for one of the big 7 seat MPVs like Ford Galaxy or a van, no car would be able to fit the scooter and wheelchair in as I wished to…..umm, slightly different to what he told me when I met him several times at Mazda….it would not be any problem on those days if it had i would have rethought everything!!!  But 1) I dont have the room on my drive to park something that big and still give me room to get in and out of my house in my wheelchair  2) there is another car parked on the drive and the way our cars have to park, a big big car would the stop the other one fitting on the drive with it. 3) I spend so much time in hedgey lanes and narrow roads something that big would make that a nightmare to negotiate all the time.

    So I have now left the car and my scooter with him…I did chuckle when he said can I leave the car, scooter and wheelchair with him for a few days,..how exactly did he envision me getting around without the wheelchair…. the mind boggles!!!  I have told him removing the middle seat will work as the better option,  but have also said if he cant do anything with the scooter and hoist attachment that would mean I can take my battery in and out to not do any work to the seats, as I will the have to think again and pretty much write off this car.  We did also find that the bar they have put on the scooter is affecting my scooter seat. It has a little lever that gives  me the option to turn the seat round, which I need to get in and out. The lever is catching on the bar from the hoist and on, so the seat will not lock in to the scooter seat post….its like one of those waltz rides at fairground where the chairs just spins round on it’s own, I go one way and the seat spins the other way! Funny to watch but not so to sit on when you end up facing the opposite direction to where the scooter is facing! So i have also said if that cant be solved to contact me before doing anything else!!

    So I now have to wait, he did take the car and scooter straight to the technicians to see what’s going on with the scooter, so I’m hoping I’ll hear soon. One suggestion he had was to move the hoist attachment on the scooter to behind the seat and counterbalance it by adding some weights to the front of the scooter….so it would lift balanced and not tipping forward.  But again I just have to wait and see.

    I’ll update as soon as I hear, but as before thanks peeps, I felt much more confident this morning to deal with this after all your advice and tips.  And yes motability were fab when I spoke to them.

     

    #72706 Reply

    JS (justsaying)
    Moderator

    Smoo

    i can’t say this enough I’m so proud of the forum’s user and participants and the advice they give, Thank you All. I must also say Smoo fair play and well done you’ve done everything right from the start and it’s unfortunate your in this position when you’ve done your homework and covered all basis. I’ve just commented on another thread that Don’t except something just because a dealer/fitter says so, your the customer of Motability with individual needs and no you don’t have to except compromises. You chose a vehicle that suited you on the grounds it could function to your set needs, the cx-5 is a great car and a brilliant all rounder but it’s wrong for them to say that you have no choice. As it seems you like your homework can I suggest just in case you need to change vehicle (sounds likely) and I must say I’ve only looked at this out of interest the last couple of days, to look at the Seat Tarraco which is rumoured to make an appearance next month, it’s not a huge car with sliding doors but is 7 seats as standard and with the back 2 flat is 700ltr space, but with you and your needs in mind also has sliding and folding second row seats with a lot of flexibility with good all round access. yet for all purposes remains a relatively standard SUV without the sliding side doors and size of the like of the galaxy etc. As said before Motability will allow you to change and you shouldn’t lose out financially. over £9500 in allowance alone for 3 years is a big unnecessary compromise, combined with Ap/Adaptions, seriously you don’t have to expect Miracles just a suitable vehicle for your personal needs that makes tomorrow and all the following days easier, And hopefully this doesn’t come across a patronising but the scheme exists for these situations and is there to support your needs and requirements, and hopefully will be resolved quickly.

    #72732 Reply

    vinalspin
    Participant

    Hi Smoo, have you had a look at the Peugeot Rifter/Citroen Berlingo Multispace, both basically the same car, no bigger than the CX5 but have a higher and bigger boot that would accommodate virtually any hoist and should have enough room for your scooter and chair(all 3 2nd row seats are individually removable and slide forward and back, the top spec models have all the toys are are a very good drive, just a thought as it’s looking like you might have to give up on the mazda.

    #72844 Reply

    Smoo

    🙂 🙂 🙂

    hoorah!

    Sitting on my drive is my mazda CX5 with my scooter on board with the removable battery now removeable for charging and a space to fit my wheelchair in!!!

    I’ve just returned from yet another trip to the fitter with a big sigh of relief…..he has sorted it all out as best as I could hope for  with the limits on car size i have.

    The battery now comes of the scooter as he has turned the lifting bracket/part around on it so now it sits and lifts from behind the seat post, giving me full access to the battery and doesn’t affect the swivel seat on the scooter as it was doing.  Luckily the  balance point is still okay so havent had to add any weight to the front of the scooter as they thought.  It now goes in through the boot and the hoist has been adjusted so it pushes it right across and behind the passenger seat with that one side rear seat reclined. I have to remove the back of the scooter seat and armrests, but they are a simple job to put back on.

    He has also removed the centre car seat (well just the back of) and I can now have the seat behind the drivers upright and my wheelchair sits across it and slightly into the gap left by the seats removal.

    It might be a comprimise to how I thought and was led to believe it would be originally but having been about to look at some of the larger cars you generous peeps pointed me to over the last couple of days, for several reasons regarding size etc I think this is a good compromise as unless I went with huge, and then I’d have different problems that just couldn’t be solved.   because I want scooter and wheelchair and I just dont have space on my drive for something so much bigger the garages said to get it as simple as both scooter and wheelchair side by side and not needing to move one out of the car to get to the other and vice versa I’d struggle.

    To be honest thinking about it logically if I was putting both in through the boot unless I went with one the van type motors I would always have to remove I.e the scooter to get access to the wheelchair and then remove the scooter again to put the wheelchair back in or the other way round and would take me physically trying to drag them both around in the car to get them in position to hoist and that would be pretty much impossible for me to do and lots of time and space to be pulling both out of the car if I could manage. I rarely go out without someone with me so they can get the wheelchair out for me.

    So for me this arrangement works, it’s not perfect but I think I was so naive to think anything would be. I would though suggest if anyone was looking at the CX5 in a position like I am, I would really really check out about hoists etc before proceeding. One thing I will say is that the limits of the hoists and opening size of the boot mean even with a chair like mine (invacare action ng self propelling model and mine has a removable hard seat so folds a lot flatter than some) that can be pushed together tightly and its back folded down the hoist i have (brig ayd 80kg programmable) will struggle to lift the wheelchair high enough to go in the boot unless you lie the wheelchair flat on its side first. But even then my fitter showed me the way wheelchairs are its not so simple to get it hoisted balanced if it needs a bracket on the chair. You also have the difficulty of the flipping the chair on its side and likely lying it flat on the floor, maybe having to remove its large wheels.

    Scooter only. mine is a rascal veo sport boot scooter and it would not go in the boot with the seat back and arms on, and will not fit without having to decline back seats. Also check about whether tbe bracket they add to it for the hoist will give problems removing the battery for charging.

    I must say though the car is really lovely, comfy, warm, roomy and easy to get in and out of and a great drive and some of its tech makes a better experience for me driving. I did speak to the mazda garage today to make them aware of the issues I’ve had, for other possibles customers.  He said he’d bear them in mind if he has any other motability enquiries as had previously trusted what the fitters told him.  He was really very apologetic, but he has been great from the start of my dealings with the garage and I do truly believe he thought everything was going to ok.

    I guess we do learn from our mistakes, but I now have a big list of checks I will make if I chose motability again after my term with the Mazda ends. All the little things I hadn’t thought of…including refuelling being on the ‘wrong side’ of the car !!!

    I cant Express how helpful you have been and how much I really do appreciate every response to my help plea. every bit of advice, suggestions have been taken on board and have made me so much more knowledgeable and confident to deal with the problem.

    This forum is amazing, as are the generous people who read moans like mine and are so kind to reply.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    Wishing everyone happy motoring!,

     

     

     

     

     

     

    #72846 Reply

    JS (justsaying)
    Moderator

    Pleased a solution could be found, and relatively quickly, well done for keeping a calm head during a troubling time.

    #72878 Reply

    ChrisK
    Participant

    Hi Smoo

    So glad you’ve got this sorted and yes we learn but with so much to think of we still get the odd things wrong as I was caught out on my current car with the fuel filler cap too with the cap on the other side from the driver.

    I was about to ask what scooter you actually have then noticed you got that down the page.

    The reason I wanted to know is because I’m intrigued at the idea of taking the back of the seat off. To get clearance for my scooter I fold the tiller down onto the seat base then fold the back of the seat down onto the tiller so I have a tiller sandwich.

    Never thought the back of the seat could be removed and replaced that easy but that said my sandwich way works for me anyway but just curious.

    You will soon get into the swing of how everything comes together in the car and you will be loading and unloading in minutes before you know it. That said I still get it wrong 75% of the time where the scooter needs to stand away from the car to drop the hoist cross member directly down on the scooters hoist connection without having to jolt the scooter into place but like you said, we get used to it and its worth it for our freedom.

    Spring is in the air and Summer is on the way so time for loads of practice for we two loading and unloading our life lines and once again, great your happy now.

    I leave you with the words of John Lennon “There are no problems, only solutions”. 😊

    #79688 Reply

    Smoo
    Participant

    Re. Removing the middle seat back.

    Sorry, I know it is a long time but I dont know why but I didn’t see your post about taking middle seat out until I came back to the forum as the solution I’ve been battling with in the Mazda is now something I cant cope with anymore, its actually putting me off going out in the car if I have to get the scooter in and out!

    If you are still interested in my fix taking the back of the seat out, I hope this makes sense? It’s basically turned the Mazda in to a 4 seat car with the scooter out and a 3 seat car with it in, much better than a 5 seat with the scooter out and a 2 seater with the scooter in.

    The Mazda has a 60/40 rear seat split, with the 60 split on the drivers side. The hoist as normal lifts my scooter in to place it on the passenger / near side of the car. In order to fit the scooter in it needs more width than I get by just lying the 40 split on the passenger side the car seat split provides.  Which in the Mazda I could only get the scooter in by laying all the seats flat because of the layout.  By removing the back of the centre of the 3 seats I can get the scooter in on its hoist and then put it on the back of the flattened near side seat and it sits on the back of the passenger seat and slightly  in the gap left by the back of the seat we removed, I have a hard mat that I put in the gap so it gives me a flat surface for the scooter.  It then at least gives the option of using one of the rear seats as a seat with the scooter in the car. My problem is I need to carry the wheelchair as well and have been putting that standing up folded on the drivers side rear seat. it leaves me with a 2 seat car and has been a nightmare. I do find though that when the scooter is in and pushed in the gap left by the missing seat back and then the wheelchair is standing up on the drivers side rear seat i get a clash where the scooters wheels and the wheelchairs wheels get caught in each other, but if you don’t need to put the wheelchair in on the back seat it works quite well.

    Saying that I would have never gone with the Mazda if I had been told I wouldn’t keep any rear seats with the scooter in and even if they had said I could get it in using the ‘setup’ as it now is I would have looked for a different car, for me anyway.

    Having persevered for three months I’m actually in the process of changing  it, the car is such a nice drive, really comfy, great drive and roomy in the front.  I am really upset to change it and give in  but its become more of a problem and really put me off going out in it. Motability have been amazingly helpful. I’m just very nervous that I will be given the wrong advice again, but this has definitely taught me a few things and this forum has given me a list I take to dealers.

    The Mazda was apparently really easy to remove the seats back, its currently in my loft. Other than disconnecting a few wires and a bolt it’s not done any damage to the car and the adapters said it would go back in without any difficulty if I ever wanted it to, even though there was a charger and an aux adapter in it.  It definitely gave me more room to not have to ‘sandwich the scooter’ together as much either as not only did I gain length but a bit of height room. Saying that I do have to remove the scooters seat back to get it in on the Hoist and in the car and it does need a manual shove to push it up far enough up the back of the passenger seat as the hoists cant push it in that far.

    If this makes no sense (I won’t be offended if you tell me so) I can try again I could take a picture before I return the Mazda so you can see what I mean…if somewhere to post it.

     

    #79711 Reply

    ChrisK
    Participant

    Hi Smoo

    No problems with digging up old threads as its good to know what outcome come about after a few months of trying out a solution.

    The only thing confusing me, and I’m still confused is the removal of your scooter seat back. Reading your latest post I see you mention removing one of the back seats of the car but thought, maybe wrongly, you were talking about removing the actual back part of the scooters seats. It’s just I’ve never heard of anyone removing the back of what they call “the captains chair” and must be a bit of a chore to do every time the scooter gets used as I don’t think, thought I’ve not looked, that my scooter seat back would come off easily and if push came to shove, its easier just to take the whole seat off the scooter to get the scooter to lay lower down in the car. Hope that made sense. 😊

    I’ve had exactly the same problem with size of my parking space and a car big enough to get a fully assembled pavement scooter in and for me the KIA Carens fitted just right but would of preferred the VW Touran had they been able to deliver in a reasonable time.

    I had my hoist installer out a couple of weeks ago with a niggling little problem with not being able to release the scooter from the hoist if the ground behind the car was a few millimetres lower than the car and that he fixed but while I had him there I said I was a bit worried about smashing the back window of the car when I slam the hatch close and he suggested putting the outside seat back into to their normal use space and put the middle seat forward and put the scooter in the car with the one left front wheel into the space of the middle seat and the back left wheel of the scooter sitting almost fully left so the scooter is in the car diagonally and this has worked great with now having two middle row seats that can be reclined and just one seat that’s a tight fit for one of the grand-kids but better than having two tight seats as before but just having an expert about in the way of the installer made the differents.

    Unfortunate for you it looks like the only solution is to change the car and I would say have a look at the Touran as its a 7 seat car, as is my Carens, but is only about (from memory) 4” or 5” longer than my previous VW Golf hatchback but of course is not so comfortable as a hatchback including the Mazda but easier to get in and out of, for me anyway.

    Wish you luck in finding something.

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Reply To: Issues with brand new car and built in hoist….any advice please?

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