Is the Electric car just a stopgap?

  • This topic has 29 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 1 month ago by Rich.
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  • #123901 Reply
    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    Back in the pre diesel-gate days the future of emission free vehicles looked like being hydrogen power. The advantages over electric cars are obvious, you don’t have to directly charge the batteries for hours instead you fill the car with compressed hydrogen and the batteries are charged by a chemical process mixing hydrogen with oxygen in situ.

    The news today is that Scottish Power are producing green hydrogen from their wind farms and things seem to be moving quickly.

    It’s an exciting prospect, the future could be a choice of zero emission vehicles to suit all requirements. This could be the news every petrol forecourt has been waiting for. Or perhaps it’s just hot air.

     

     

Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 29 total)
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  • #123905 Reply
    vinalspin
    Participant

    The ability to fill up the same as always, great range, Hydrogen power plant supplying electric motors, best of all worlds, what’s not to like.

    #123907 Reply
    Elliot
    Participant

    I always thought this was the way forward but it had seemed to go quiet recently. Makes sense to me especially for those who will struggle to charge their car at home.

    #123923 Reply
    solent60
    Participant

    Hmmm. It would appear that electric cars are nothing other than a ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’…

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54170207

    #123960 Reply
    alan1302
    Participant

    That is about plug-in hybrids – not full electric cars.

    The issue with Hydrogen vehicles is that the technology is not quite where it needs to be to come to the mass market.  I think short term it will be electric cars for people whilst commercial will stay diesel, then commercial will start moving to Hydrogen power…after that I am not so sure.

    #124008 Reply
    rox
    Participant

    Hydrogen can be created from electrolysis and i seen vids of ppl in america running diy kits, but they The powers at play do not want us running cars on water/ H2O as they won’t be able to charge us for the energy, whatever it is.. It is very intresting.

    #124011 Reply
    bfoandc

    The article is very interesting not least for 3 different companies co-operating over it. Like many people the hydrogen model has always struck me as one which should work well. I think that it will be particularly so for larger vehicles where the storage needs can be met safely. I’m not sure that at the moment smaller vehicles would be able to carry the hydrogen they needed safely – but I could well be wrong.

    #124012 Reply
    Brydo

    So after the £billions spent on BEVs we are going to drop them in favour of hydrogen mmmmmmmmm! dont think so.

    We are a few years away from having mainstream BEVs travelling over 300-400 miles on a charge. The battery tech is moving forward at pace, so much so that at the end of this decade we won’t recognise the the tech being used now.

    #124013 Reply
    gothitjulie
    Participant

    BEVs are well suited to the urban environment so will probably stay.

    Hydrogen is better where the fuel needs to be transported beyond the electrical grid although methanol is more easily transported.

    I’ll go with Brydo’s observation about BEV batteries having long enough ranges in a few years & that will be what stops mass hydrogen adoption.

    Now if you could find me a small fusion reactor to use that hydrogen & produce electricity from it I’d have to say that would sweep all other technologies aside, but as ever it’s 50 years away, same as it was 50 years ago.

     

    #124018 Reply
    Clipped wings

    Hitachi just bailed out of building a nuclear Power station  in Wales and future projects. Unless the government stops wasting money on Environmentally disastrous vanity projects like HS2 and invests in power generation, EVs will only charge when the wind blows or otherwise from fossil fuel generators thus negating their already dubious green credentials. Eg @74kgs of lithium each mined In the Andes. If we took every UK Ice car off the road the CO2 saved only equates to several weeks of Chinese coal Fired power stations.

    #124020 Reply
    Carl

    Ten years ago there was a race to the top between hydrogen vehicles which was being championed by toyota and electric vehicles being championed by telsa….

    At this moment in time electric vehicles have won the race,  the infustruvture for charging is expanding through europe, china and USA.  This is Driven by china as they hold 85% of battery lithium mines which produce the stuff.  Tesla have become the most valuable car manufacturer on the planet given their exceptional high share price, although until recently were a loss making company!!  Toyota have built a handful of hydrogen vehicles and there are a few hydrogen fuelling stations dotted around.  But every manufacturer seems to be getting on board the electric bandwagon.
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Like the vhs and betamax race, there can only be one winner, it looks like to me that the race has already been won!   I cant see anything changing in our lifetimes to be honest.</p>

    #124022 Reply
    Menorca Mike

    I saw a brand new Toyota Prius hydrogen car on M42 being tested it had powered by hydrogen logos all over it etc was silver

    #124025 Reply
    Tharg

    @gothitjulie – you have won me over. Nuclear fusion, perhaps the best energy generation method we’ll ever know, could make steam to spin up a small turbine to deliver drive to wheels. Divine! Fusion and jets – what’s not to like? Mind you, Ford designed the “Nucleon” back in 1957, unfortunately powered by fission (which does have a bit of a waste-product issue). Looked good though…

    #124032 Reply
    Abercol
    Participant

    We have 3 hydrogen pool cars at work, Toyota Mirai’s. Very swish, range is around 400miles & there are two public hydrogen filling stations in Aberdeen. We also have 7 i3’s & the Toyotas are more comfortable and luxurious, but they are £750 a month vs the i3 at £280. They are quite similar to drive as both use electric drive systems, but the hydrogen car is not as brisk. I wanted the Nexo, but it was way more per month to lease.

    We got them for long range staff travel as well as between our campuses (82 mile round trip)  – given that they may need to make that journey twice or even three times a day & refuelling takes around 5-10 mins.

    We also have 4 hybrid corollas for the longer trips just in case the Mirais are busy or the staff will be on-site remotely for a few days and not able to refuel.

    Changed days from the horde of 1.6 petrol Ford Escort LX’s & an old Sierra estate they had when I first started work there in the last century.

    In life, it's not who you know that's important, it's how your wife found out.

    #124040 Reply
    alan1302
    Participant

    Hydrogen can be created from electrolysis and i seen vids of ppl in america running diy kits, but they The powers at play do not want us running cars on water/ H2O as they won’t be able to charge us for the energy, whatever it is.. It is very intresting.

    It’s not true that the ‘powers to be’ don’t want people running cars on water.  If people can make a car that ran on water they would make a fortune out of it- it’s just not possible at the moment.  The government would just increase your road tax to claw the money back from the lost revenue from petrol/diesel costs.

    #124042 Reply
    Daf

    Personally I don’t mind which clean energy option we go for whether its electric, cold fusion, hydrogen or some new energy source. But the fact is that if we don’t dump ice cars pretty soon we won’t have an environment to worry about.

    At the moment electric is the most viable option, far less pollution and the way wireless charging is developing we will have a situation where the vehicle is being charged as we drive.

    Its in the interest of all of us no matter what country we live in to do the right thing not just for ourselves but for future generations.

    #124108 Reply
    Clipped wings

    Hi Daf,

    agree that we should all do our bit but UK ICE cars are a drop in the ocean on a global scale and CO2 and other greenhouse gasses are a global issue. The elephant in the room is exponential population increases and the subsequent demand on diminishing resources.  In the UK since Blair opened the floodgates we have 6 million more inhabitants or 5 Birmingham’s worth – more cars, more wasteful traffic jams. More fuel burnt but Never mind, more tax revenue. My particular concern over a 35 year flying career was looking down on the destruction of equatorial rainforest – the lungs of the planet which covert CO2 to O2. I have witnessed deforestation on a massive scale and the current slash and burn in Brazilian Amazon is disaster of epic proportions. In Indonesia Forrest is replaced by palm oil plantations and some is used as additive to petrol and peddled as green fuel. You really couldn’t make it up. Gordon brown and  the eu foisted carcinogenic diesel fuel on us because of lower CO2 emissions. That went well. Let’s hope the politicians embark on some joined up thinking. meantime my ice Vw shuts down two cylinders when cruising and I use very little fuel doing a low mileage it will likely last 20 years and not need large components replaced such as a 700 kg  battery pack

    #124111 Reply
    Richard

    I think the self charging hybrid will be the way we all go in the end as technology marches on,the only thing that will halt this will be governments and big business they need to find the money they will loose from tax on fossil fuel paying for electric is going to get expensive.  Only time will tell…

    #124133 Reply
    Daf

    Hi Clipped wings

    You make some inciteful comments which are totally relevant and couldn’t agree more about the destruction of the lungs of the earth. However as an individual I don’t have much control over deforestation. I pay monthly to WWF and Green peace which I know does help.

    I do however have some control over my own carbon footprint which is why I advocate changing to greener power sources. Whilst my own efforts don’t amount to much just think what 7.8 billion plus individuals can do.

    One of man’s strongest instincts is the will to survive. We are in a battle for our survival and I believe we can all do our part. There will be ever more incentives to switch from ICE cars as the effects of climate change become more apparent.

    The only failure in life is not to try.

    #124147 Reply
    Brydo

    Richard I don’t think that will be the case. Every year more BEVs are coming to the market, so by the end of the decade the majority of cars on the road will be BEVs and PHEVs with electric range in excess of 50 miles.

    Self charging hybrids are really just ICE cars.

    #124148 Reply
    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    @brydo

    Are you still hanging onto that XC60? It must be getting close to the end now?

    #124165 Reply
    Brydo

    @wmcforum test drive in the xc40 next week and will order the same day. Delivery in January next year so will have the xc60 for a few months yet.

    #124167 Reply
    Rhodgie

    Clipped wings,

    UK ICE cars may be a drop in the ocean in the global scale of co2 production but the number of people murdered in the UK is also a drop in the ocean of the global scale….. so does that mean we can carry on killing as long as we try to keep the numbers down 🤔

    Your VW may use very little fuel but it is still using fossil fuel when there are renewable alternatives available, and I always hear about replacing this big battery pack…. never about all the ICEs that had to be replaced before they started to get a bit more reliable… anybody else remember cars from the 60’s & 70’s? Besides those battery packs that are no longer any use for cars get recycled for other uses.  I do agree that the exponential population increase is a big issue, one that almost all governments are afraid to tackle.

    As for self charging hybrids, they are a marketing con to keep people buying fossil fueled vehicles and keep the oil industry in business  ☹

    #124205 Reply
    Clipped wings

    Hi Rhodgie,

    Im certainly not against ev/hybrids- just pointing out that they are not a free lunch. In urban areas especially Good where they transfer pollution to a remote power station which is great for our lungs. Diesel soot and NOx has probably killed a lot more than murderers. My neighbour has a Tesla 3 which is superb, but with my mnd I couldn’t be doing with cables on an icy winter night. Hello A&E! Horses for courses and despite flying a 747 that burnt an average ten tons/12500 litres/ hour I am a conservationist at heart. My cars going back to 1970 have all been modest 4 cylinder and never wished to emulate colleagues that bought range rovers etc.

    #124207 Reply
    Clipped wings

    A Tesla solar roof, Tesla powerwall and a model y would solve the problem at source.

    #124287 Reply
    Brydo

    The Tesla solar roof tiles look great, don’t think there are any in the U.K. yet but there is at least one British competitor.

    The Tesla battery, or any other make, is a bit of a luxury circa £6000ish.

    However the ev revolution will be severely affected if V2G chargers cannot be made for a reasonable price. The grid will need to use the electricity stored in ev batteries to balance the supply needs of the country.

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