Goings on north of the border…

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  • #137596 Reply
    Brydo

    Both!

    #137600 Reply
    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    Guido Fawkes. Ouch.

    #137635 Reply
    joss
    Moderator

    She seen an opportunity to oust Salmond and took it. Now She has been found short, and Salmond is coming to get her for her wrong doing toward him. Pop corn anyone ?

    Joss
    *** ***
    Current car BMW X2 2.0i Sport sDrive Auto 2019 with Sport pack
    Last car Ford Focus Titanium 1.5 TDCI
    Builder of Gaming PC's

    #137639 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    We can only hope…

    #137641 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    From effiedean’s blog:

    If Remainer journalists were willing to do their job they would point out that Sturgeon has not been doing a good job on Covid nor indeed on healthcare in general, education and any other issue that the Scottish Parliament controls. Yet still the media think she walks on water.

    Not only do the SNP run Scotland poorly, they are now split into fundamentalist Salmondites and gradualist Sturgeonistas. Impatience at having to wait even six years for another go, has left the SNP tearing itself apart with Sturgeon accused of attempting to nobble Salmond and then corruptly trying to cover it up. If this was happening in England, it would be on the BBC every night. If Boris had done even a fraction of what Sturgeon may have done, the Remainer media would be going crazy.

     

    #137643 Reply
    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    I am not sure Effie Dean will offer an impartial opinion. I love the review of their book ‘makes Trump seem sane’

    As for Boris doing a fraction – where do we start.

    #137644 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Where would you find this impartial opinion that you seek, wmcforum?  It doesn’t exist – everyone has bias.

    #137646 Reply
    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    Just providing some background information. I’m not searching for impartial information, Instead read, listen, absorb and draw my own conclusions.

    #137648 Reply
    gothitjulie
    Participant

    There’s a complete write-up on this very story here:

    shakespeare.mit.edu/macbeth/full.html

    The bard changed the names to protect people, obviously…

    #137650 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Wmcforum, point taken, of course. But while you commented on the author of the piece and on Boris Johnson, you said nothing about the content of what I posted or the politician situation in Scotland which was rather the point of my starting the thread.

    #137651 Reply
    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    I’d prefer to wait until NS has spoken to the inquiry. Up until that point it’s just politically motivated news puff and an angry man.

     

    #137659 Reply
    Brydo

    Anyone who has broken the law/rules should be held to account, no matter who they are. Everyone is innocent till proven guilty, and all that, so let’s see what the evidence shows before jumping to conclusions.

    #137667 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    I think we can conclude that someone is lying. Of course it’s what politicians do.  The only questions to be answered are who lied and will they get away with it.  My money is on the getting away with it bit.

    #137670 Reply
    Daf

    Obviously we have to await the outcome to see who was telling the most porkies. However I wouldn’t mind betting that given the choice between being governed by the mob at Westminster or Hollyrood most would opt for Sturgeon and co.

    In recent polls she has a better approval rating than Boris even in England! She does seem to have got up the noses of some of the more lunatic Brexiteers as well which gives her a plus in my book.

    #137672 Reply
    Brydo
    Participant

    I would take her before Boris every day of the week.

    I would have bet my house on :-

    1. The Uk voting to stay in the EU.

    2. Trump losing the 2016 election.

    3. Boris not becoming PM

    So maybe my opinion is stuck in a time where the UK had values.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
    Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

    #137680 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    And of course we all knew Leicester City would win the premier league.

    #137681 Reply
    Menorca Mike
    Participant

    I admire Nicola she is a good speaker and has Scotland’s best interest at heart imho

    BBC Breakfast expert, VW Golf driver.

    #138141 Reply
    Mike 700
    Participant

    They are politicians so both are inveterate liars, especially so over Independence, and the costs involved, eg Tax revenue generated in Scotland amounts to approx £66 billion pa , which includes the ever decreasing North Sea oil revenue.

    However Scotland spends some £81 billion in public spending, which of course means that Scotland currently spends more than £15 billion more than it generates in income.

    This is only possible because the UK pools and shares resources across the entire country, not quoted by the SNP?

    Pooling also resulted in the Scottish Government receiving some additional £8.2 billion for Corona Virus expenditure – from the enemy in Westminster!

    Independence means Scotland will not be well-placed to tackle the problems of the future, such as an ageing society, a working population of less than 2.4 million currently, & substantially less when those working in Banking & Financial Services etc.move south to follow their quickly relocating employers, or stay perhaps without jobs and increase public spending, and we mustn’t forget the relocating MOD personnel, and the estimated £6 billion spent in Scotland, resulting from the closure of The Trident Base, plus the redundant personnel from the relocation of other defence bases.

    Nearly forgot, we then have the Barnett Formula –

    Quote from Barnett himself –

    “I have become more troubled by the so-called ‘Barnett Formula.’ with every passing year. It is clear that what was then a short-term political fix has no place in deciding long-term government spending. It is grossly unfair that Scotland should receive more money than the regions of England or Wales when that decision is not based on actual need.

    At the moment, Scotland is given around £1,600 a head in annual central government grants more than England. That is manifestly unjust and allows the Scottish parliament to provide all sorts of things, such as free prescription charges and university education, that the English can only dream of. “
    Unquote.

    This will cease immediately, and the removal of this funding ‘ alone ‘ will hit the Scottish voter where it really hurts , from Day 1.

    Forget emotion, the truth is that there simply is just not going to be enough income going too the treasury to cover the requirements of Running the country – so the current substantial debt levels will pale into insignificance compared to whats to come , if indeed Scotland can borrow anything?

    The SNP has sold itself as the saviour of Scotland being Rob Roy all kilted and armed to the teeth, charging over the border to free itself from the evil Westminster.

    People , in their euphoria , have not taken the time to look beneath that kilt for the reality!

    But there is reality under there, and it is harsh, and that is , that Scotland will be bankrupt without the UK , with no hope of recovery – simple truth & fact.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Mike 700.

    VW Tiguan SEL in Silver White.

    #138206 Reply
    Daf

    The British empire has told 65 countries the same things that you have highlighted and yet those 65 Countries still went their own way. As far as I am aware not one of the 65 Countries that gained their freedom have asked to rejoin and some have done rather well. I refer of course to the USA,Canada, Australia, New Zealand and of course Ireland. No one would infer in any way that Scotlands future as an Independent state wouldnt contain considerable challenges but I have no doubt they would be up to the task.

    The fact is that if Scotland had been free to make their own choices when they had the oil bonanza then they might have been in the same position as Norway rather than as a poor region of the UK.

    So I wouldnt be too pessimistic about Scotlands future if they chose to go it alone as I have immense confidence in their abilities to survive without subsidies designed to keep them dependent.

    Of course if there were any chance that the buffoons in power in Westminster realised that we badly need a federal system of governance in the UK and offered the Scots real autonomy, that might just do the trick. But that would need world class diplomacy and all we’ve got is Boris so I think the dye is cast.

    #138222 Reply
    Mike 700
    Participant

    Sorry, but you can’t compare countries like any of those that you have mentioned, with Scotland, as they are all at a distance from us geographically, and were actually not tied economically to anywhere near that of Scotland – Chalk and cheese , whereas Scotland is part of the same land mass and the population as well as the economy is intertwined.

    Ireland Is closer to an independent Scotland scenario, but without the handouts from the EU , Ireland would likely not have survived, and Scotland will not be part of the EU.

    Ireland was very nearly bankrupt during the financial crisis and the
    Ireland Government together with the EU were extremely grateful to the successful U.K , as evidenced by the pleasure shown when they received our share of the bail out they needed.

    “Between 2009 and 2011, RBS made “capital contributions” totalling €9.13bn (£7.6bn) to its Dublin-headquartered subsidiary ‘Ulster Bank Ireland’.

    Over the same period, Lloyds transferred £6.41bn to its Irish operation, Bank of Scotland (Ireland), before dissolving the business.

    The total – £14bn – amounts to more than a fifth of the £65bn UK taxpayers injected into RBS and Lloyds in 2008 and 2009.

    Analysts estimate that RBS has since transferred another £2bn .

    Significantly, RBS and Lloyds used the funds to write off billions of pounds of debt loaned to Irish commercial property developers and households in the “Celtic Tiger” boom years.

    After the bubble burst, Ireland’s banks brought the country to its knees ( not a UK bank in sight) and forced the government into a €67.5bn (£56.5bn) international rescue, including £7bn from the UK Government, plus the injections of capital and write offs already mentioned, so over £20 billion of U.K. taxpayers hard earned cash.

    Further, we are talking about the here and now , not a historical event on the other side of the World.

    I am not being pessimistic about the economical situation ,should they get a referendum in 40 to 50 years time. ( the 2014 referendum was a ‘once in a lifetime referendum’ after all, as agreed by all political parties ) , I am in fact not bringing any emotion into the argument , just indisputable facts and truth.

    Btw, the buffoons in power, were elected by a record majority, successfully sorted Brexit – as confirmed by Michel Barnier this very day, and have stolen a march on the EU over the vaccines, and have spent most of the last decade digging the UK out of the greatest mess left by any previous Government .

    So, not everybody shares your view of our Government – a view however to which you are perfectly entitled to hold, and one which I would defend your right to hold ,to the bitter end .

    Good to debate the matter with you!

     

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Mike 700.

    VW Tiguan SEL in Silver White.

    #138225 Reply
    BigB

    Mike700

    If Scotland is such a drain on the British economy, why is Boris so desperate to keep it as part of the United Kingdom?

    #138230 Reply
    Daf

    All the Countries I mentioned were part of the British empire and have done very well since they left and given the international nature of trade distance has nothing to do with it.As you rightly pointed out the Scottish economy does not appear to be doing very well but that’s because they are part of the union. You cant blame the present situation in Scotland on the Scottish government as they have no powers over Macro or micro economic levers.

    What I find difficult to understand from a Brexiteer position is that it’s all very well to cry freedom against the “tyranny” of the EU not allowing the UK to be a free country but then denying Scotland the same rights to self determination within the UK. Is that not double standards

    It’s also true to note that every other Nation/Region of the UK with the exception of Greater London are also in deficit due to the over centralised nature of the UK state.

    Check the GDP per capita figures for Ireland and see that they have recovered from the Financial crisis far more successfully than the UK.

    The Scots have a perfectly good reason to ask for another referendum because they were lied to by the UK. They were warned they would be thrown out of the EU if they became independent but would remain if still in the UK

    The UK governments handling of the Covid crisis has resulted in this Country having the highest rate of mortality in the World per head of population. They do appear to have made a reasonable job with the vaccine but that is the exception to the rule in their handling of this crisis.

    At the end of the day it is Scotland that should have the right to decide on its future  particularly given Brexit and its implications. I have no doubt that they will make the right decision and become a successful free state.

    I think that had the Scots been offered the same autonomy within the UK that the UK had within the EU that may have been adequate to assuage the desire for Independence but unfortunately that time has passed. There will be a new relationship between the Nations of these Islands whatever happens, of that I have no doubt.

    #138232 Reply
    Mike 700
    Participant

    Mike700 If Scotland is such a drain on the British economy, why is Boris so desperate to keep it as part of the United Kingdom?

    As already explained, an Independent Scotland would be an economical disaster, and who pays- the ordinary Citizen ,and their families, a goodly proportion of whom are related to or intertwined with others throughout the UK.

    We are one family, and like any family we are ‘better together’, and it is not a case of why Boris wants to hang on to Scotland when it is such a drain on the economy, it is because we are a family, and we help each other out financially, and every other way that we can.

     

    Btw.

    It is not just Boris and the Tories wanting to keep the family together, it is virtually all other leaders and members of virtually all other parties .

     

     

    VW Tiguan SEL in Silver White.

    #138233 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    It’s worth remembering that the referendum asked “Should Scotland be an independent country?” And voters said no.

    A fairer question would have been “Should Scotland leave the UK or remain a member of the UK?”. What is the likelihood that given that much less ambiguous question voters would choose leave?

    #138234 Reply
    Mike 700
    Participant

    ‘What I find difficult to understand from a Brexiteer position is that it’s all very well to cry freedom against the “tyranny” of the EU not allowing the UK to be a free country but then denying Scotland the same rights to self determination within the UK. Is that not double standards.’

    It’s not Scotland as such, it is the SNP which wants to be Independent and cast off the shackles of Westminster, but then want to immediately put on the shackles of the EU- which is hypocrisy in the extreme, and is selling a lie to the electorate.

    There lies the ‘double standard’!

     

    I am not going to argue over the governments handling of the pandemic and whether or not we will end up having the highest death rate, until the end of the pandemic, when true comparisons can be made- which they can’t be at present.

    VW Tiguan SEL in Silver White.

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