Fogstar Energy 30kWh 48V Rack Battery Bundle £6,000

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  • #270258
    Brydo
    Participant

      Battery prices have been predicted to fall over the past years but I couldn’t believe the price of this home battery. It is almost half the price of the battery I was looking at (givenergy 15.5 all in one).

      Theres  virtually no info on this battery and there are a few omissions compared to the givenergy but the price is really interesting.

      In my situation this, on its own, would pay for itself in about six/seven years maybe sooner depending on future electricity prices.

      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

    Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 58 total)
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    • #270261
      Avatar photoWillis
      Participant

        Battery prices have been predicted to fall over the past years but I couldn’t believe the price of this home battery. It is almost half the price of the battery I was looking at (givenergy 15.5 all in one). Theres virtually no info on this battery and there are a few omissions compared to the givenergy but the price is really interesting. In my situation this, on its own, would pay for itself in about six/seven years maybe sooner depending on future electricity prices.

        Battery prices do seem to be tumbling over the last few months as investment begins to reveal new processes.
        15.5 is a big battery. Does it give any indication of weight or expected life?

        #270269
        kezo
        Participant

          What do you want to know other than they are LiFePO4 server rack  style batteries available in 5.12kWh, 15kWh and 30kWh and use Gold Standard BMS.

          8 year warranty: 10-15 Year Lifecycle

          16 Grade A EVE Cells: Industry-leading cell technology delivers exceptional life (4000 cycles @ 80%)

          Intelligent Heating System: Our batteries automatically activate their heating function when temperatures drop below 5°C, ensuring optimal performance even in frigid environments of -20°C.

          • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by kezo.
          #270291
          Brydo
          Participant

            @kezo it would be nice to know if they have a reputation good or bad and if anything in their plurb stands out as a problem and if compared directly with the givenergy 13.5kwh how it stands up?


            @Willis
            I’ve been reading up about the size of battery required to run a house my size including an Air Source Heat Pump and 20+ kwh seems to be a range that is quoted. I initially was looking at the 15.5 kWh but as my research progressed 20kwh+ seemed optimal however the price was high. When I came across this one I thought it was too good to be true and wanted to find out more.

            The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
            Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

            #270298
            Avatar photoWillis
            Participant

              What do you want to know other than they are LiFePO4 server rack style batteries available in 5.12kWh, 15kWh and 30kWh and use Gold Standard BMS. 8 year warranty: 10-15 Year Lifecycle 16 Grade A EVE Cells: Industry-leading cell technology delivers exceptional life (4000 cycles @ 80%) Intelligent Heating System: Our batteries automatically activate their heating function when temperatures drop below 5°C, ensuring optimal performance even in frigid environments of -20°C.

               

              That all sounds very good but you obviously have far more specialist knowledge that I do. I have had someone give me a quote for solar with battery storage but just felt uneasy with how they were trying to push me to sign up there and then, but two things that have stuck in my mind about their visit was how they pushed how good battery storage would be in our circumstances and how much different batteries could vary in quality and potential life. They also tried to baffle me with weights of different batteries and how crucial it could be in relation to size, especially as the installation would mostly be going into the loft, so I was just curious what sort of weight a 15kwh battery would be.

               

              #270299
              Avatar photoWillis
              Participant

                @kezo it would be nice to know if they have a reputation good or bad and if anything in their plurb stands out as a problem and if compared directly with the givenergy 13.5kwh how it stands up? @Willis I’ve been reading up about the size of battery required to run a house my size including an Air Source Heat Pump and 20+ kwh seems to be a range that is quoted. I initially was looking at the 15.5 kWh but as my research progressed 20kwh+ seemed optimal however the price was high. When I came across this one I thought it was too good to be true and wanted to find out more.

                I was pushed towards an 8kwh battery during the one quote I have had for solar but was told that would only do ‘most of what I wanted’ with no other justification for the size recommended.

                #270304
                kezo
                Participant

                  That all sounds very good but you obviously have far more specialist knowledge that I do. I have had someone give me a quote for solar with battery storage but just felt uneasy with how they were trying to push me to sign up there and then, but two things that have stuck in my mind about their visit was how they pushed how good battery storage would be in our circumstances and how much different batteries could vary in quality and potential life. They also tried to baffle me with weights of different batteries and how crucial it could be in relation to size, especially as the installation would mostly be going into the loft, so I was just curious what sort of weight a 15kwh battery would be.

                  The Givenergy All in One 13.5kWh weighs 173kg

                  The Fogstar Energy 30kWh 48V weighs 173kg but is more than double the capacity.

                  This does not mean the Givenergy is better, just because it is heavier. The design of the unit and casing plays a part.

                  Both have the same battery chemistry of LFP (LiFePO4) meaning each battery cell in both the Fogstar & Givenergy are basically equal in weight and energy density.

                  Givenergy is a subsidiary Shenzhen Givenergy Technology Co., Ltd. Specifically, the company operates a manufacturing facility in Shenzhen, China and the units are put together in the UK and other countries.

                  Fogstar is a British company, who deal in Solar, other LiFePO4 and Vape batteries. The company some batteries under its own name but, that are made by other companies and are open about this. For their own branded solar batteries they use batteries produced by EVlithium, particularly EVE LF100LA and LF304 depending on the solar battery you want. EVlithium are located Zaozhuang, Shandong province China.

                  https://www.evlithium.com/html/about.html

                  So the battery manufactures are China v China. Fogstar use a UK designed heated system to keep the batteries warm and enable optinum charging in colder weather. They also you use a Pace Battery Management System, which is considered gold standard. I’m not sure if Givenergy have battery heating or the BMS used but, it is ip65 rated for outdoors, where as Fogstars rack system isn’t but, they do have another designed system cheaper still for the same kWh.

                  I’m a sparky along with having MCS certifation and lets say I’m a Growatt certified installer and you invited me to give you a quote, you would quoted/pushed for a Growatt solar battery and told its the best thing since sliced bread. Is it better actually better than the rest, when they are all based on LFP/LiFePO4 and typically each cell has the same weight and energy density. There is alot more in what makes a solar battery apart from the battery itself, like has it got a good quality BMS system and what other important features does it have along with useability, size and suitability for location of fitment.

                   

                   

                  #270328
                  Avatar photoWillis
                  Participant

                    That all sounds very good but you obviously have far more specialist knowledge that I do. I have had someone give me a quote for solar with battery storage but just felt uneasy with how they were trying to push me to sign up there and then, but two things that have stuck in my mind about their visit was how they pushed how good battery storage would be in our circumstances and how much different batteries could vary in quality and potential life. They also tried to baffle me with weights of different batteries and how crucial it could be in relation to size, especially as the installation would mostly be going into the loft, so I was just curious what sort of weight a 15kwh battery would be.

                    The Givenergy All in One 13.5kWh weighs 173kg The Fogstar Energy 30kWh 48V weighs 173kg but is more than double the capacity. This does not mean the Givenergy is better, just because it is heavier. The design of the unit and casing plays a part. Both have the same battery chemistry of LFP (LiFePO4) meaning each battery cell in both the Fogstar & Givenergy are basically equal in weight and energy density. Givenergy is a subsidiary Shenzhen Givenergy Technology Co., Ltd. Specifically, the company operates a manufacturing facility in Shenzhen, China and the units are put together in the UK and other countries. Fogstar is a British company, who deal in Solar, other LiFePO4 and Vape batteries. The company some batteries under its own name but, that are made by other companies and are open about this. For their own branded solar batteries they use batteries produced by EVlithium, particularly EVE LF100LA and LF304 depending on the solar battery you want. EVlithium are located Zaozhuang, Shandong province China. https://www.evlithium.com/html/about.html So the battery manufactures are China v China. Fogstar use a UK designed heated system to keep the batteries warm and enable optinum charging in colder weather. They also you use a Pace Battery Management System, which is considered gold standard. I’m not sure if Givenergy have battery heating or the BMS used but, it is ip65 rated for outdoors, where as Fogstars rack system isn’t but, they do have another designed system cheaper still for the same kWh. I’m a sparky along with having MCS certifation and lets say I’m a Growatt certified installer and you invited me to give you a quote, you would quoted/pushed for a Growatt solar battery and told its the best thing since sliced bread. Is it better actually better than the rest, when they are all based on LFP/LiFePO4 and typically each cell has the same weight and energy density. There is alot more in what makes a solar battery apart from the battery itself, like has it got a good quality BMS system and what other important features does it have along with useability, size and suitability for location of fitment.

                    Cheers Kezo. That’s great information and has made me realise that I actually need to do a lot more reading and research into solar installations rather than just get bounced into going ahead with one based on thinking it is the right thing.

                    I’m normally so careful and do loads of research before making any big purchase but with solar I seem to have got caught up in all the hype and very nearly committed to a very expensive purchase last week. I’ll take some time now and if I do it then at least I’ll do it as an informed purchase!

                    #270339
                    Brydo
                    Participant

                      @Willis I’m no expert but having dealt with a few installers recently the info I’ve received from them regarding battery size is that your battery should be at least that of your daily consumption. Mine is about 15kwh per day since I started charging my plug-in hybrid but if I put in an Heat Pump it will be much more. With regards to solar I would go for as big an array as possible, or you can afford. Solar panels are as cheap now as they have ever been so now would be a good time to get them.

                       

                      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                      #270371
                      Brydo
                      Participant

                        @kezo if the batteries are similar, assuming similar in price, how can there be such a difference in price?

                        Looking at the Givenergy battery it is an All in One. I know it has an inverter, not a solar inverter, so there must be other bits and bobs to explain some of the price difference.

                        The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                        Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                        #270382
                        kezo
                        Participant

                          @kezo if the batteries are similar, assuming similar in price, how can there be such a difference in price? Looking at the Givenergy battery it is an All in One. I know it has an inverter, not a solar inverter, so there must be other bits and bobs to explain some of the price difference.

                          Can I answer this tomorrow when my head screwed on 🙂

                          #270383
                          Brydo
                          Participant

                            Absolutely Kezo no rush mate 👍

                            The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                            Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                            #270431
                            kezo
                            Participant

                              1 of 3 posts highlighting differencies in bold, which will be edited as we go along!

                              Givenergy:

                              The All in One, contains 4 modular battery packs totalling 13.5kWhGateway if one is needed (+£560). 6 units can be connected in parallel totalling 80kWh.

                              The All in One is supplied as a complete system, including an Inverter and a Modbus energy meter, repkacing the need for the EM115 meter.

                              The unit is IP65 rated so suited for external installation.

                              The main Tech spec’s are:

                              6000W nominal AC output power
                              Peak Power 7.2kW peak/6.0kW continuous (7.2kW @ 10s, 6.5kW @ 30s)
                              IP65 rating
                              Dimensions 1100H x 280D x 600W (mm)
                              12 year warranty

                              Battery Capacity 13.5kWh
                              Communication Interfaces CAN
                              Nominal Voltage 307V
                              Maximum Charge/Discharge Current 25A
                              Battery Voltage Range 260-346V
                              Depth of Discharge 100%

                              Life Cycle 15-20 years.

                              Other than knowing GivEnergy use LFP/LiFePO4 batteries there is no information on Grade of battery, Cell model or Cell Pack arrangement used however, it can be assumed to have and energy density of around 160 -180 kW/Kg. There is also no information

                              Price circa £6,000 with delivery (TRADESPARKY.COM)

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by kezo.
                              #270434
                              Brydo
                              Participant

                                That’s great Kezo thanks 👍

                                The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                #270436
                                kezo
                                Participant

                                  That’s great Kezo thanks 👍

                                  I haven’t finished yet – 2 more posts to follow 😉

                                  #270442
                                  Oscarmax
                                  Participant

                                    1 of 3 posts highlighting differencies in bold, which will be edited as we go along! Givenergy: The All in One, contains 4 modular battery packs totalling 13.5kWhGateway if one is needed (+£560). 6 units can be connected in parallel totalling 80kWh. The All in One is supplied as a complete system, including an Inverter and a Modbus energy meter, repkacing the need for the EM115 meter. The unit is IP65 rated so suited for external installation. The main Tech spec’s are: 6000W nominal AC output power Peak Power 7.2kW peak/6.0kW continuous (7.2kW @ 10s, 6.5kW @ 30s) IP65 rating Dimensions 1100H x 280D x 600W (mm) 12 year warranty Battery Capacity 13.5kWh Communication Interfaces CAN Nominal Voltage 307V Maximum Charge/Discharge Current 25A Battery Voltage Range 260-346V Depth of Discharge 100% Life Cycle 15-20 years. Other than knowing GivEnergy use LFP/LiFePO4 batteries there is no information on Grade of battery, Cell model or Cell Pack arrangement used however, it can be assumed to have and energy density of around 160 -180 kW/Kg. There is also no information Price circa £6,000 with delivery (TRADESPARKY.COM)

                                    On the Martin Lewis site several member are having issues with GivEnergy, in the caravan and marine industry Foster have a good reputation.

                                    #270446
                                    Brydo
                                    Participant

                                      @kezo I did realise that but I’m happy for any help/info 👍


                                      @Oscarmax
                                      that’s good to hear, could you remind me on what system you have installed and how you are finding it positives and negatives.

                                      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                      #270448
                                      Brydo
                                      Participant

                                        @Oscarmax i have heard that before, in fact one supplier refuses to install givenergy batteries as he said the problems with the connections side were costing him too much time and money to come out and fix.

                                        The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                        Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                        #270452
                                        kezo
                                        Participant

                                          On the Martin Lewis site several member are having issues with GivEnergy, in the caravan and marine industry Foster have a good reputation.

                                          The All-in-One system has certainly faced some challenges, with owners facing numerous issues across the board.

                                          There is the possibility and there is alot of talk by the right people, that Givenergy derate their batteries to allow them to offer leading unlimitted warranties, along with the SOC issues and batteries discharging during peak hours.

                                          What battery do you have?

                                          I’ll update on Fogstar comparison later once my head is screwed on (not feeling well) 🙂

                                           

                                          #270453
                                          kezo
                                          Participant

                                            @kezo I did realise that but I’m happy for any help/info

                                            LOL – Bare with me mate, just not feeling great again today and awaiting brain to engage for tech stuff 🙂

                                            #270512
                                            Oscarmax
                                            Participant

                                              SolaX Triple 5.8 kWh with SolaX AC inverter to date it has been working fine, the APP is reliable  although a bit on the slow side. £4,500 fitted in October 2022. complete with a HIES warranty. SolaX comes with a 10 year warranty which can be extended to 20 years if taken out up to 3 years after registration, we may consider extending the warranty.

                                              We import approximately 3000 kWh, 1800 kWh is used to charge up the PHEV and 1200 kWh for domestic use, the 3000 kWh is charged up Octopus Agile off peak we are wavering between 10/12 pence kWh. We export approximately 3000 kWh @ 15 pence kWh are electric bill is virtually zero.

                                              I realise you situation is totally different to ours, the 5.8 kWh is financially about right for use. 2 x 5.8 kWh battery would probably suit your needs you are probably looking at £6,500 fitted.

                                              Does the Foster include the inverter and fitting ?

                                              • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by Oscarmax.
                                              #270520
                                              Brydo
                                              Participant

                                                @oscarmax thanks for the info. No the battery price is for the unit only so invertor anf fitting still to be added plus whatever rlse they need to fit it.
                                                I am assuming the £6,000 is including VAT but doesn’t say on their website so 🤔 circa £4800 for 30kwh battery is pretty good.

                                                I intend to buy, whichever battery I go for, my self, and just ask for a price to fit it. I’m trying to shame the electrician into giving me a price that reflects the work required.
                                                From what I can gather it’s a days work for one guy, with the exception of lifting the battery. I am hoping I can help in that regard and get the wife to help him😂.

                                                I’m assuming it is a basic invertor I need rather than a solar invertor?

                                                Let’s say I get the battery and installation for £6,500 I am looking at 5/6 years to repay itself at today’s electrical prices.

                                                I’m I right in saying the battery can be charged overnight @ 9p per kwh and then sold back during the day for 15p per kwh.

                                                I also have an existing 3.6 kwh solar install that I get a feed-in tariff from. At present I get 5p, roughly, for an assumed 50% of my solar output being returned to the grid what happens to this if I redirect all my solar to the battery, or agree a deal with Octopus energy to sell it to them as part of the 15p per keh deal? Doesn’t seem right that I get paid for it twice.

                                                The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                                #270522
                                                kezo
                                                Participant

                                                  Givenergy All in One & Fogstar compared in here.

                                                  Givenergy:

                                                  The All in One, contains 4 modular battery packs totalling 13.5kWhGateway if one is needed (+£560). 6 units can be connected in parallel totalling 80kWh.

                                                  The All in One is supplied as a complete system, including an Inverter and a Modbus energy meter, repkacing the need for the EM115 meter.

                                                  The unit is IP65 rated so suited for external installation.

                                                  The main Tech spec’s are:

                                                  6000W nominal AC output power
                                                  Peak Power 7.2kW peak/6.0kW continuous (7.2kW @ 10s, 6.5kW @ 30s)
                                                  IP65 rating
                                                  Dimensions 1100H x 280D x 600W (mm)
                                                  12 year warranty

                                                  Battery Capacity 13.5kWh
                                                  Communication Interfaces CAN
                                                  Nominal Voltage 307V
                                                  Maximum Charge/Discharge Current 25A
                                                  Battery Voltage Range 260-346V
                                                  Depth of Discharge 100%

                                                  Life Cycle 15-20 years.

                                                  Other than knowing GivEnergy use LFP/LiFePO4 batteries there is no information on Grade of battery, Cell model or Cell Pack arrangement used however, it can be assumed to have and energy density of around 160 -180 kW/Kg. There is also no information

                                                  Price circa £6,000 with delivery (TRADESPARKY.COM)

                                                  Fogstar rack battery:

                                                  Fogstar battery is available a single unit 5.12kWh (£1,050) and as a 15kWh (£3,000) or 30kWh (£6,000) in a rack bundle. A 15kWh rack contains 3 batteries and 30kWh rack 6 batteries c/w cabinet) The ability to connect up to 15 rack batteries in parallel.

                                                  This battery differs to Givenerg’s AIO and therefore is part of a wider solution, containing only the battery and BMS and Inverter protocols for most majour brands, with the ability to change them. It is also not suitable for external installation, unless installed in a out building – shed garage etc.

                                                  Standout features:

                                                  Each 5.12kWh battery contains 16 premium Grade A EVE cells

                                                  UK designed internal heater – automatically activates internal heating system when temperatures dip below 5°C, enabling charging even in conditions as low as -20°C.

                                                  The use of a Gold Standard PACE BMS

                                                  Cycle Life: 4000 Cycles at 1C to 80%. (After 4000 cycles, you will still have a battery that can deliver 80% of the stated capacity) 5.12Kwh is fully useable.

                                                  Capacity: 100ah

                                                  EVE Cell Model: LF100LA
                                                  Cell Assembly: 16S1P

                                                  Technical specs:

                                                  Manufacturer: Fogstar Energy
                                                  Model: ESR51.2V 5.12KWH
                                                  EVE Cell Model: LF100LA
                                                  Cell Assembly: 16S1P
                                                  Cycle Life: 4000 Cycles at 1C to 80%. (After 4000 cycles, you will still have a battery that can deliver 80% of the stated capacity) 5.12Kwh is fully useable.
                                                  BMS: PACE 100A BMS
                                                  Maximum Discharge: 100A
                                                  Balance Current: 0.5A
                                                  Capacity: 100ah
                                                  Weight: 45.2kg
                                                  Nominal Voltage: 51.2V
                                                  Rack Unit Size: 3.5U

                                                  Pre-loaded Inverter Protocols: Victron, Sofar, Pylontech, Growatt, Solis, Goodwe….

                                                  Life Cycle: approx 15yrs

                                                  Warranty 8 years.

                                                  What I like with the Fogstar units, is their openess providing you with the  Cell model along with the Cell pack configeration and of course who the manufacturer is, from which you can find valuable information. See Link

                                                  https://www.evlithium.com/LiFePO4-Battery/eve-lf100la-100ah-battery.html

                                                  I’ll make seperate post comparing a Fogstar 5.12kWh with a Givenergy 5.12kWh (both same price) which is part of a range that also includes a 2.6kWh unit. My guess as we stand now, is your paying for the privelidge for the All in One.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  #270523
                                                  Oscarmax
                                                  Participant

                                                    @oscarmax thanks for the info. No the battery price is for the unit only so invertor anf fitting still to be added plus whatever rlse they need to fit it. I am assuming the £6,000 is including VAT but doesn’t say on their website so 🤔 circa £4800 for 30kwh battery is pretty good. I intend to buy, whichever battery I go for, my self, and just ask for a price to fit it. I’m trying to shame the electrician into giving me a price that reflects the work required. From what I can gather it’s a days work for one guy, with the exception of lifting the battery. I am hoping I can help in that regard and get the wife to help him😂. I’m assuming it is a basic invertor I need rather than a solar invertor? Let’s say I get the battery and installation for £6,500 I am looking at 5/6 years to repay itself at today’s electrical prices. I’m I right in saying the battery can be charged overnight @ 9p per kwh and then sold back during the day for 15p per kwh. I also have an existing 3.6 kwh solar install that I get a feed-in tariff from. At present I get 5p, roughly, for an assumed 50% of my solar output being returned to the grid what happens to this if I redirect all my solar to the battery, or agree a deal with Octopus energy to sell it to them as part of the 15p per keh deal? Doesn’t seem right that I get paid for it twice.

                                                    Even with the SolaX battery I generate approximately just over 4000 kWh and export approximately 3000 kWh so I am actual exporting 75% back to the grid, so you should be fine.

                                                    Import 3000 kWh @ 10/12 pence + standing charge

                                                    Export 3000 kWh @ 15 pence.

                                                    At 9 pence a kWh on Octopus Go (4 hours off peak) you could charge up your PHEV estimate 1500/1800 kWh and charge up your battery, mine charges at 3.7/3.8 ish kWh so approximately approximately 15 kWh, so in theory you will never need to pay the high day rate with a 30 kWh battery. Here is the best bit, with Octopus you can still keep your FiT tariff. So basically you tick all the boxes.

                                                    As this is a retro fit you will retain you existing solar inverter, you will have a AC inverter to charge you battery from the mains and excess solar. The marine industry use Victron inverters I have one in the caravan its is both efficient and bulletproof, Victron have there own forum.

                                                    If I was to start all over again Victron AC inverter and Foster 30 kWh battery

                                                    #270526
                                                    Brydo
                                                    Participant

                                                      Fantastic info guys.

                                                      Oscarmax/Kezo had a quick look at Victron inverters and there seems to be many which should I go for with regards to the Fogstar install.

                                                      The situation with the fit payments seems t good to be true, but brilliant. At the moment I am receiving 60+ pence per kWh for roughly 3000kwh of generation over the year, so I can sell that again for 15pence per kwh? 😅 not to mention the 5p per kwh for 1500 kwh of the very same generation, BONKERS.

                                                      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                                      #270528
                                                      Brydo
                                                      Participant

                                                        @Kezo the one thing the givenegy does have in its favour is the Gateway. Ad far as I can make out its the Gateway that is the brains of the op and the all in one is just connected to it. The  Gateway allows the house to continue to run even in a energy blackout. Also in the future the Givenenergy EV charger will be upgraded to V2L and “work seamlessly withe Gateway”

                                                        The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                        Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

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