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Big Brother is not only taxing you – he’s watching you too.
I’m going to bet disabled drivers will get little, if any, help – not from this government.
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Oh ho, Statler and Waldorf are off again.
Oh the drama, you must be miss piggy then?? đđđ
More details coming out re pre MOT cars;
“To solve this issue, the government is proposing an extra mileage check at an âaccredited providerâ on the carâs first and second birthdays. The terms of how this will work havenât yet been finalised, but the government currently expects itâll be handled by the dealership when you take the car for its annual service.”
Agree @Woodpecker.
In fact, I’d go a step further. Increase Income Tax a few % on the basic rate, same on the middle rate.
More for defence, NHS, other public services.
When I entered the workforce in the early ’80s, the basic rate was 25%.
Under a Tory government.
I think we’ve had enough years of ” lower taxes” to understand that they don’t necessarily mean consumers spend more to grow the economy.
Having said that, Uber Eats, Deliveroo, Evri etc are doing well to support the immigrants which Southamman is obsessed with đ
2024 - BMW i4 Grand Coupe eDrive 35 Sport
2020 - Volvo XC40 T4 Inscription
2017 - Audi Q3 TFSi Sport S-TronicBig Brother is not only taxing you â heâs watching you too. Iâm going to bet disabled drivers will get little, if any, help â not from this government. https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/364095/huge-ev-pay-mile-tax-details-revealed-gps-tracking-and-price-increases-confirmed
Are expecting some one to pay for your running costs as well, if you have a ICE vehicle you have to pay the tariffs regardless whether you are disabled or not. It is only fair for it to be brought in line, however, someone will find a way to cheat the devices.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Just a thought, if Mad Ed becomes chancellor he obsessed with Net Zero on his way to push everything Net Zero he may reverse this decision and load it onto ICE vehicle pushing more owners into EV vehicles ?
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Just a thought, if Mad Ed becomes chancellor he obsessed with Net Zero on his way to push everything Net Zero he may reverse this decision and load it onto ICE vehicle pushing more owners into EV vehicles ?
Whilst I agree that he is mad, there would be no need to do this as ICE car drivers already pay fuel duty at an equivalent pence per mile rate that is way above what EV drivers are going to be charged. With fuel prices being high, and likely to remain high until next year, the government is also raking in extra VAT as well, which we are charged on both the fuel and the duty!
Besides, despite the strong year on year growth of EVs, they still only represent a little over 6% of the cars on U.K. roads. The far bigger 94%, who still use fuel, are voters and, as we know, politicians always have an eye on the next election!
Yup, that is why ICE cars carry tte greatest share if the tax burden, they are far more numerous, and is common sense.
But that will change rapidly in the next couple if years as ICE becomes a rarity.
Its about this time that petrol stations will increasingly shut down and be sold off.
Agree @Woodpecker. In fact, Iâd go a step further. Increase Income Tax a few % on the basic rate, same on the middle rate. More for defence, NHS, other public services. When I entered the workforce in the early â80s, the basic rate was 25%. Under a Tory government. I think weâve had enough years of â lower taxesâ to understand that they donât necessarily mean consumers spend more to grow the economy. Having said that, Uber Eats, Deliveroo, Evri etc are doing well to support the immigrants which Southamman is obsessed with đ
Yup 72 dudes.
The bizarre paradox is that it is the Migrants that are paying Southamwomans state pension.
We have a local company that supplies high value vegetables to restaurants and high end shops.
They employ 3000 people, the majority are migrants that do seasonal work. They charter planes an buses to get them here. It is highly specialised work, and they are valued for their skills.
We used to go berry picking or lifting potatoes during school holidays and earned good money.
The migrants are doing that job very very well.
But that will change rapidly in the next couple if years as ICE becomes a rarity. Itâs about this time that petrol stations will increasingly shut down and be sold off.
Next couple of years? Try decades. It is predicted that it will be another 8 years from now before EVs (just) exceed 50% of the cars on our roads. At that point, there will still 15-20 million cars reliant on petrol or diesel on our roads. The average age of cars on our roads is now just over 10 years old, and modern cars easily last 20 years plus, so many millions of ICE cars will still be on our roads well over 20 years from now, so there will still be huge demand for fuel and therefore petrol stations. I will be long dead before ICE cars become a rarity, and Iâve probably got at least another 25 years left!
But that will change rapidly in the next couple if years as ICE becomes a rarity. Itâs about this time that petrol stations will increasingly shut down and be sold off.
Next couple of years? Try decades. It is predicted that it will be another 8 years from now before EVs (just) exceed 50% of the cars on our roads. At that point, there will still 15-20 million cars reliant on petrol or diesel on our roads. The average age of cars on our roads is now just over 10 years old, and modern cars easily last 20 years plus, so many millions of ICE cars will still be on our roads well over 20 years from now, so there will still be huge demand for fuel and therefore petrol stations. I will be long dead before ICE cars become a rarity, and Iâve probably got at least another 25 years left!
The UK & EU remain large auto markets to one another . It also goes without saying that are core market values remain on the same projectory, ultimately both the UK & EU will follow the same phase on on the sale of ICE, which has currently been push back fro 2035 – 2040 in the EU. Be under no illusion the UK goverment will eventually follow these dates. But, more importantly, it won’t stop Labour in the meantime coming up with their hairbrainedor the continuation of money generating schemes, such as the ZEV mandate, which has caused intense challenges & suffering on made in britain and did not follw market wide reality. Not forgeting Labour allowed influx of Chinese cars almost tariff free, apart the basic import duty of 10%, crushing what little remains of the made in UK’s car market.
The though petrol station will disapear overnight or in the immediate future is disillusional. The governments own estimates suggest petrol stations will remain how they are today well into the 2040’s, if not longer.
The EV market share sits at 25%. Several major automakers have announced at the end of last year, plans to backpedal or delay their EV production due to a decline in demand, including Mercedes, Ford, VW, BMW, Volvo Aston Martin, whilst other top manufacturers are facing challenges.
I hear alot of Khan sentiments on hear on how were not polluting are kids and the like, but we of forget with stricker regulations ICE is becoming cleaner time after time and forget Khan’s menacing London traffic zones added a paultry 15 minutes to someones life, but generated ÂŁmillions!
Overall it is reminiscent of the “con” Carbon Offsetting – Because, non ever consider the ecological impact, the cancer ridden communities, buried villages and chemical and other pollution caused in the minining country/’s that are well documented.
I’m not agains’t EV’s, but going the full enviromental reasoning, one is kidding themselves. If you can have an home charger, they are a cheap way to get from a to b and this is where more emphasis should be!
Good effort guys but no cigar…
The truth is ICE IS going the way of steam locomotion, there will be ZERO petrol stations within a decade.
Unfortunately, taking todays figures and projecting them forward 5 years from now is an utter FAIL.
You may think you have some leverage, but you have none.
You cannot seem to figure out supply and demand.
If 20% of vehicles are BEV,s, demand drops and petrol prices RISE. Pushed along by increased Govt taxation.
At that point its a doomsday spiral fuel skyrockets in price and people find it too expensive. This is going to happen within 2 years.
As previous post bevs outselling petrol cars, they did not expect that to happen for another couple of years.
Its too funny, you guys burying your heads in the oil sands.
Why do you think consumer energy is so expensive today?
The govt is increasing sub station capacity, more power grids to deal with the increased demand for electricity. Every substaion within my locality is expanding and adding battery storage.
Good effort guys but no cigar⌠The truth is ICE IS going the way of steam locomotion, there will be ZERO petrol stations within a decade. Unfortunately, taking todays figures and projecting them forward 5 years from now is an utter FAIL. You may think you have some leverage, but you have none. You cannot seem to figure out supply and demand. If 20% of vehicles are BEV,s, demand drops and petrol prices RISE. Pushed along by increased Govt taxation. At that point its a doomsday spiral fuel skyrockets in price and people find it too expensive. This is going to happen within 2 years. As previous post bevs outselling petrol cars, they did not expect that to happen for another couple of years. Its too funny, you guys burying your heads in the oil sands. Why do you think consumer energy is so expensive today? The govt is increasing sub station capacity, more power grids to deal with the increased demand for electricity. Every substaion within my locality is expanding and adding battery storage.
So what you’re saying is that everyone buying a brand new (let’s say) Toyota hybrid car today, or tomorrow, next month, next year, in 2028 or even 2029… they’ll all have to sell them for scrap metal value less than a decade from now – because all UK petrol stations will be extinct by 2036?
So what youâre saying is that everyone buying a brand new (letâs say) Toyota hybrid car today, or tomorrow, next month, next year, in 2028 or even 2029⌠theyâll all have to sell them for scrap metal value less than a decade from now â because all UK petrol stations will be extinct by 2036?
No, because whe he says “As previous post bevs outselling petrol cars, they did not expect that to happen for another couple of years.” he is refering to the same Toyota Hybrid being a BEV and included the whole variety of hybrid types, as counted towards EV sales!
The govt is increasing sub station capacity, more power grids to deal with the increased demand for electricity. Every substaion within my locality is expanding and adding battery storage.
The goverment want to be an AI superpower. One of its flagship data centres cannot get the electricity to switch on. Nscaleâs ÂŁ2bn Essex site has the money, the planning permission, and a grid connection, but no power because the decision to increase substation capacity and supply capacity, primarily made by lies with the National Grid Electricity Transmission and EOLSS not the government.
The workaround is increasingly to go off-grid. More than 100 UK projects are now weighing gas generation while they wait, according to industry data. That is an awkward answer for a government trying to electrify the economy and clean up its power at the same time.
Mean while the company is now shopping for its own electricity. It is looking at on-site generation, including talks with a fuel-cell maker or gas generation, rather than waiting on the National Grid.
The fuel shortage you said never happened because of diverse supply and less reliance on the strait Airlines got on the bandwagon, seeing it as a way to increase prices and shouting fuel shorted, before doing a screaching U turn shouting there are no shortages of fuel once sales plumeted and put in danger their summer season a beyond! At the same time road transport continued as normal with no shortages bar panic buying in the odd area.
If ICE came to a complete end tomorrow, wiping petrol diesel and hybrid off the roads or either halfing them, what do you think will happen to the 52.95 pence + VAT per litre fuel duty? Perhaps one is being premature with their thoughts!
I’d consider that all vehicles should pay per mile. Get the whole country used to the idea, and to make the EV migration smoother.
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@kezo I think that we have fleshed out a troll. No sane person can seriously believe that there will be NO petrol stations left within a decade;
The current UK vehicle fleet consists of over 36 million cars, of which roughly 94% still rely on petrol, diesel, or traditional hybrid engines. In ten years (2036), industry experts project that between 15 and 20 million internal combustion engine (ICE) cars will still be on UK roads. While new ICE car sales are being phased out, millions of petrol and diesel vehicles will remain in circulation in the used market.
If no petrol stations will exist in 10 years time to supply those 15-20 million ICE cars still running around, you and I should get our skates on and start a joint venture to replace them. We will make so much money we will make Elon Musk look like a pauper đ¤Ł
As was proved by hard data on the other thread, BEVs are NOT outselling petrol cars yet – only if you conveniently manipulate the data to exclude mild-hybrids from the petrol numbers đ¤đ¤Ł
Approximately 60-70% of new pure petrol cars sold in the UK now feature a mild-hybrid (MHEV) system
As weâve learned from Donald Trump, repeating the same untruths over and over again doesnât make them facts! đ
You and I have been on this forum long enough to remember that we have had one or two others over the years who join this forum to stir the pot and come out with wild unsubstantiated claims. As and when they are proved wrong (as they always are) they disappear – or perhaps they come back under different user names đ¤ đ
Hee hee, the only fleshing thats done are the dinosaurs burying their head in the sand.
The dataset in the article is fact.
It a serious article that has garnered a lot of attention and not the mumblings of a couple of old geezers and their misrepresentations.
It is simple, as petrol sales decline, the closure rate of petrol stations will be on a exponential curve, as the decreasingly small profit margins will make the owners sell up and get out of dodge.
But it is the absolute finite guarantee that petrol will be unavailable in a few short years, that has a couple of old geezers in complete denial that is heart warming …bless. am sure it will be fine for them someday, disillusioned, as they are, and hope. Clinging on to a sliver of false hope.
Its ok, its happened before and it will happen again
Film cameras………..digital cameras
Crt tv,s…………flat screen tv s
Cd,s ………streaming
Flip phones ..smart phones.
These technological changes happened in a handful of years, as will the transition to bev,s.
Then there are the petrol station owners and FOMO kicks in. Once a few start, it will be stampede.
Declining ICE sales ,.fewer fuel stations remain profitable.
They will sell up., if they can get someone to buy them…if you are looking for a few prime land deals you may make a killing. But its expensive clearing out the underground tanks and decontamination. But doable.
However:
ZEV is a fact.
Declining ICE sales is a fact.
Petrol station closure is a fact.
Legislation to ban ICE engines is a fact.
The two antagonists are not even on the scheme…another fact.
Its too funny ..lol.
Unsubstantiated facts is your accusation you should look in the mirror.
I quoted these facts:
International Energy Agency (IEA), Fatih Birol.
rapidly depleting oil inventories and fuel shortages in May
Europe had “maybe six weeks of jet fuel left in June.
These are facts and are indeed substantiated..
Let look at actual statistics whether electric cars actually outsold petrol:
Despite the BEV surge, traditional hybrids took the crown as the continentâs best-selling powertrain last year. A total of 4,566,850 hybrids were sold, reflecting a 12.4 percent increase and pushing them past gasoline-powered cars for the first time.
While itâs easy to conclude that EVs outsold gas-powered cars entirely in December, thatâs not entirely true. These figures from the European Automobile Manufacturersâ Association include full and mild hybrids in the âhybrid electricâ category, which led the industry in sales.
Full hybrid and mild hybrids on sale use gas-powered combustion engines, whether thatâs to drive the wheels, charge the battery pack, or a combination of both, the combustion engine plays a much wider role in powering these vehicles than the actual battery. So it would perhaps be more accurate to lump together hybrid electric and gas-powered vehicles into the same category. If that were the case, they would come out well ahead of BEVs.!
As the ACEA’s own chart shows, Hybrids led the charge,leaving the typical petrol stations to be around longer than one initially thought!
While itâs easy to conclude that EVs outsold gas-powered cars entirely in December, thatâs not entirely true. These figures from the European Automobile Manufacturersâ Association include full and mild hybrids in the âhybrid electricâ category, which led the industry in sales.
My opinions about BEVs, other members etc are well known, so no point in regurgitating that here, but it’s worth pointing out that the suggestion that there won’t be petrol stations in a decades time is beyond moronic.
It’s worth pointing out that even assuming that the ZEV mandate will stay as it is (which btw, i see we still blame labour for for some idiotic reason, despite being introduced and pushed through by the tories), petrol stations will not die out for at least another 30-40 years.
It feels a bit like Woodpecker doesn’t grasp the fact that in 2035 (as it currently stands) sales of new ICE vehicles is prohibited. The tens of millions of diesel and petrol cars on the road currently (and increasing in number until 2035) won’t magically disappear. In fact, the market for USED petrol/diesel will go through the roof, with used ICE vehicles keeping their value even better then.
In fact, that’s the sentence that gives it away.
Legislation to ban ICE engines is a fact.
It’s, i guess, wishful thinking at best, but certainly not a fact. I’m not even sure what you’re referring to, but “ICE engines” aren’t banned and there’s no legislation i’ve ever heard of that results in a blanket ban for ICE. Sales of new ICE vehicles is prohibited. Existing ICE vehicles (over 30 million cars today, massively more by 2035) will continue to be kept, maintained, and legally driven (and resold until the wheels fall off).
To suggest that 30+ million vehicles disappear basically overnight is, well, delusional.
Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19, VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23
Current: Hyundai Ioniq 6 Ultimate
Next: we'll see what's available in 2028.Indeed Rene, it is delusional to suggest 30 million vehicles will disappear over night….but they are YOUR words not mine.
The Govt, and I do not mean the politicians are removing iCE engines, and like the other two, you are of the opinion that it will be a slow decline.
Not so, they will legislate as they always have to change peoples behaviour, and it is usually through taxation.
Petrol duty will get raised higher and higher and as we see this year BEV car prices are dropping.
You forget the manufacturers are being squeezed by ÂŁ15k for every ice vehicle over the quota….that is taxation changing the rules
I said it earlier, you guys seem to extrapolate todays figures and project them into 2030 or 2035.
Thats is not common sense.
The Govt will drive ICE. Vehicles off the road, and they will do it by taxation and making it too expensive to own or run an ICE vehicle.
Already, it is city centres that are banning ice vehicles, next it will be towns and villages
The concept that petrol stations are still going to be open when they are unprofitable is really really delusional.
The removal of ICE vehicles is on a exponential downward curve. I gave examples before, and ice vehicles are no different.
Only this time it has Govt impetus driving out of existence.
They did the same with smoking, banned it from a few places, then everywhere, and increased the taxation to absurd levels.
Now there are very few smokers out there.
Woodpecker I think you are digging yourself into a deeper hole
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Don’t feed the troll!….wait…trolls come from Norway, a country where 98% of all vehicle sales are EV’s. Their market share is 30% of all vehicles on the road. Still loads of petrol stations there, they are showing no signs of disappearing. They just have an absolute ton of EV charging points too (a lot of them at those same petrol stations like Circle K). I have seen the odd station reduce their number of pumps – that’s a gradual changeover based on consumer demand, not a catastrophic Armageddon switchover.
I have an EV, I like EV’s but I see no issue with petrol stations still being available much as they are for 20-30 years. They may reduce the number of pumps in some instances, perhaps diesel ones once they start dying out (current sales are small % so they will die off of old age first – not counting truck stops of course).
This is just plain common sense, as others state, no business will suddenly cease to provide a service where 15-20 million customers are available. Even when the numbers drop, some petrol stations may shrink or vanish, especially where there are a lot in a small area like cities, but others will remain. To think otherwise is to not understand basic economics.
No city centre in the UK has banned ICE, they are just charging for them as “low emission zones” indeed, vehicles up to 10 years old are exempt, unless you are in London where its not emissions they are interested in, it is
congestioncash.In life, it's not who you know that's important, it's how your wife found out.
Petrol duty will get raised higher and higher and as we see this year BEV car prices are dropping. You forget the manufacturers are being squeezed by ÂŁ15k for every ice vehicle over the quotaâŚ.that is taxation changing the rules
Fuel duty is typically adjusted every year in line with the Retail Price Index, so that is nothing new. There might be times where the price is held or reduced for a period, just like the current 5p reduction that will be added back on eventually.
EV price pallatry with petrol cars is due to a combination of significant discounts from manufacturers and retailers, boosted further by government grants and a big uptake of affordable electric car models-
As the uptake of affordable electric models become the norm, it means technology will have artificially hit the top of its game in its majority, advancements will be throttled. The next battery tech will be Sodium-ion (CATL, BYD), which is already gaining traction, as a sustainable and cost effective alternative to lithium-ion, offering a lower density per kW/h for the uptake of affordable electric models-
What was once a whisper is now being talked about and making a comeback is REx technology. As Range-Extender technology is gaining traction in electric vehicles and hybrid cars as a solution to address range anxiety and improve fuel efficiency –
BMW:
“The decision to bring back the REx technology isnât just a nostalgic nod to the past; itâs a strategic response to the evolving market landscape. BMW has seen a significant uptick in global sales of REx models, particularly in China, which is now its largest market. The REx system is designed to alleviate range anxiety by providing an electric range of over 600 miles between refueling, making it a compelling option for those hesitant about fully electric vehicles.”
Perhaps petrol stations may stay the much longer than previously thought!!
Just like a double glazing salesman can’t force you to sign up for something you don’t want, nether can a car salesman force you to have a car you don’t want. The government has announced a series of adjustments to the ZEV mandate to ease the huge strain on manufacturers by offering adjustments to the phase out, offering Hybrids and PHEV’s eligibility extended untill 2035 and a reduction of penalty charges and escape fines due to the inclusion of fossil pwered Hybrids. No other major country has target punishing equivlents.
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