Electricity tariffs and setting up of EV home charging procedures

  • This topic has 125 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by Brydo.
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  • #282124
    Brydo
    Participant

      I’ve noticed we have more posts relating to electricity tariffs and setting up of EV home charging procedures and was wondering if there was enough interest to set up a permanent sticky.

      There is a fair amount of money to be saved charging from home and getting the correct tariff could save more.

      I don’t really have much expertise in the topic but I’ve noticed there are those who’ve been using a number of tariffs and actually change tarrif between summer and winter so there must be money to be saved for members to go to the bother.

      • This topic was modified 1 month ago by Brydo.
      • This topic was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by wmcforum. Reason: Too niche

      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

    Viewing 25 replies - 101 through 125 (of 125 total)
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    • #284380
      kezo
      Participant

        9kw Heat pump? thats a large heat loss, is there no way you are able to reduce the heat loss of the property, its always the best route to go regardless of how you heat the home?

        Or it could be a larger than average sized house in a northern location.

        #284400
        Brydo
        Participant

          Paul as kezo says i have a large house and I’m based between Glasgow and Edinburgh so have a high gas bill at the moment hence the anticipated move to an ASHP.

          My gas usage last year was 16,500 kWh f or heating and hot water. I plan to keep my combi boiler for hot water and as a safety net in case the ASHP turns out to be a bad move.

          There are a couple of options to reduce the pump size but I’m not sure it would make a huge difference. I have 200mm of loft insulation that i could easily increase. I have sprayed insulation to my entire downstairs so that’s fine. My windows are all double-glazed but very old. The two main living space windiws are both 2.4m x 1.8m so i could maybe reduce some heat lose by changing the glass units to Argon-filled. I have a mate who owns a glass company so this could be an option.

          The house has cavity wall insulation on the existing section and timber frame with 75 mm thick insulation on the extension.

          So there’s a couple of things i could do and might yet do but I’d probably be tinkering around the edges.

          What size of ASHP do you have Paul and what has been your experience with it?

          • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Brydo.

          The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
          Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

          #284414
          Brydo
          Participant

            Things are changing very quickly with electricity supply innovations. Octopus Energy has really shaken the marketplace with various tariffs for virtually every solar, battery storage, ASHP and BEV set-up. I have been investigating using a V2L-enabled car to run the house, or at least add additional electricity to supplement my existing generation. I intend to install a hybrid solar inverter with a “generator” port and connect the car directly to the port using a charger cable. I received this reply from Sunsynk who supply inverters with this capability.

            • This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by Brydo.

            The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
            Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

            #284428
            DisabledPaul
            Spectator

              9kw Heat pump? thats a large heat loss, is there no way you are able to reduce the heat loss of the property, its always the best route to go regardless of how you heat the home?

              Or it could be a larger than average sized house in a northern location.

              From this reply I take you don’t have any experience in thermal calculations and modern building.

               

              The thermal envelope of the property heat loss has zero relevance to the location or size of the property.

               

              #284429
              DisabledPaul
              Spectator

                Things are changing very quickly with electricity supply innovations. Octopus Energy has really shaken the marketplace with various tariffs for virtually every solar, battery storage, ASHP and BEV set-up. I have been investigating using a V2L-enabled car to run the house, or at least add additional electricity to supplement my existing generation. I intend to install a hybrid solar inverter with a “generator” port and connect the car directly to the port using a charger cable. I received this reply from Sunsynk who supply inverters with this capability.

                You won’t be able to do this unless, you run a small separate circuit with V2L, there will also be issues as the property must be able to disconnect, (island they property) in the even of a power cut.

                I believe there is only one compatible charger at present and its very expensive, (Indra)

                 

                #284433
                Brydo
                Participant

                  Paul i am no electrician and rely heavily on guys on the Firum like Kezo to throw cold water on my electrical dreams but I’m pretty sure it could be made to work.

                  The “Generator Port” on the hybrid inverter is used mostly in “off-grid” locations where a petrol generator is used when solar/wind and battery storage are low. In the situation i am referring the charging cable would come straight from the car to the “generator port”. There are cables on the market just now that will plug into a V2L BEV on the car side and have a generater socket on the other that plugs directly into the inverter. With regards V2G chargers i agree there are only a couple on the market and they are expensive but in the future they will be the only chargers that people will buy. It might take a government grant to encourage people to go this route but this would eventually reduce the cost of the unit and IMO make V2G chargers the only one worth having.

                  The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                  Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                  #284439
                  DisabledPaul
                  Spectator

                    Paul as kezo says i have a large house and I’m based between Glasgow and Edinburgh so have a high gas bill at the moment hence the anticipated move to an ASHP. My gas usage last year was 16,500 kWh f or heating and hot water. I plan to keep my combi boiler for hot water and as a safety net in case the ASHP turns out to be a bad move. There are a couple of options to reduce the pump size but I’m not sure it would make a huge difference. I have 200mm of loft insulation that i could easily increase. I have sprayed insulation to my entire downstairs so that’s fine. My windows are all double-glazed but very old. The two main living space windiws are both 2.4m x 1.8m so i could maybe reduce some heat lose by changing the glass units to Argon-filled. I have a mate who owns a glass company so this could be an option. The house has cavity wall insulation on the existing section and timber frame with 75 mm thick insulation on the extension. So there’s a couple of things i could do and might yet do but I’d probably be tinkering around the edges. What size of ASHP do you have Paul and what has been your experience with it?

                     

                    Unfortunately Kezo, has advised incorrectly here.

                    I am based Nr Hamilton so not a million miles from you.

                    What is the m2 of the property and what is showing as your primary energy indicator on your EPC?

                    For example here is mine from our property and next doors to us for comparison.

                    Our house is substantially extended from next door so is bigger in size,

                    The heat loss from our neighbours is 208 kWh/m2/year

                    Our heat loss with the house extended is -23 kWh/m2/year

                    As you can see a substantial difference between 2 properties in the same location.

                    We kept the gas boiler as a back up, our ASHP is an Ecodan, and it is set to 22 and is only really in use from November till February it runs around 1-2 hours per day maximum some days during this period it does not run at all.

                    Our ASHP has actually become oversized now, due to the minimal heat loss of the property, we have also had A/C also a heat pump installed to cool the property as is so warm especially when going to bed as heat rises, our a/c in the bedroom runs overnight even all through winter.

                    As you can see from the Octopus graphs we are a net exporter and only import from the grid November – February at 7p per kWh but sell at 34p per kWh

                    Our gas usage which is hot water only is 2900kWh around £115 per year on Octopus gas tracker tariff

                    We took on a project of insulation in 2022 with the solar pv with Tesla PW’s and MVHR system going in with ASHP, the entire house was insulated  to passiv house standards following the Enerphit guidelines, as a result we are now a zero bills house.

                    Last year all our energy costs minus the grid import and standing charges resulted in a credit of £1567.33

                    We know we undertook quite a challenge, our first point that we did before planning any of our project was to have a blower door test, this was a great eye opener to areas we never considered to be an issue, I would also recommend a thermal image survey.

                    As you can see it can be done and I wish you well on your heat reductionsepc1

                    #284440
                    DisabledPaul
                    Spectator

                      epc

                      #284441
                      DisabledPaul
                      Spectator

                         

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                        #284449
                        kezo
                        Participant

                          From this reply I take you don’t have any experience in thermal calculations and modern building.   The thermal envelope of the property heat loss has zero relevance to the location or size of the property.

                          Nah, I’m just MCS certified in solar and HP systems!

                          The larger a buildings envelope, the greater the number of heat exchanges occurs with the extenal extremities (enviroment). Insulating the envelope is an important factor but, perhaps more importantly not all building can afford an A rating, whether that is by design or cost to the consumer.

                          The larger the building, the greater the internal volume to heat or cool…

                          The design, R value (inc floors), ventillation and solar control all play a crucial factor ensuring thermal comfort. Wrapping the building fabric with insulation, especially those that wern’t built to breathe, without proper attention to adequate ventillation causes issues in itself.

                          You don’t mention local climate and why its important – What’s the temperature on 1% of the coldest days, the hottest, the humidity, the demand you require. Choosing a HP based on these extremities, rather than averges is important and often overlooked.

                           

                          #284450
                          kezo
                          Participant

                            You won’t be able to do this unless, you run a small separate circuit with V2L, there will also be issues as the property must be able to disconnect, (island they property) in the even of a power cut. I believe there is only one compatible charger at present and its very expensive, (Indra)

                            Automatic changeover switch!

                            #284453
                            DisabledPaul
                            Spectator

                              From this reply I take you don’t have any experience in thermal calculations and modern building. The thermal envelope of the property heat loss has zero relevance to the location or size of the property.

                              Nah, I’m just MCS certified in solar and HP systems! The larger a buildings envelope, the greater the number of heat exchanges occurs with the extenal extremities (enviroment). Insulating the envelope is an important factor but, perhaps more importantly not all building can afford an A rating, whether that is by design or cost to the consumer. The larger the building, the greater the internal volume to heat or cool… The design, R value (inc floors), ventillation and solar control all play a crucial factor ensuring thermal comfort. Wrapping the building fabric with insulation, especially those that wern’t built to breathe, without proper attention to adequate ventillation causes issues in itself. You don’t mention local climate and why its important – What’s the temperature on 1% of the coldest days, the hottest, the humidity, the demand you require. Choosing a HP based on these extremities, rather than averges is important and often overlooked.

                               

                              You would be able to provide your MCS number so this can be checked.

                              If you look on multiple Facebook and other site there are unfortunately many many installs by MCS registered companies and individuals that have provided “cowboy workmanship” its just a fact of thisMVHR industry.

                              Insulating your property is a choice, in most circumstances the occupier can’t afford not to.

                              For people with financial barriers and really high heat loss properties there are lots of free funding (I can only speak about Scotland) so it wise for all occupants and owners to research these routes, most of the funding is not means tested too.

                              For example we have had over 30k of funding and now our property generates us an income from this.

                              With regards to ventilation all highly insulated  properties should be fitted with a highly efficient MVHR system like ours here is the a screenshot from how ours is performing right now as you can see there is a lot of free heat recovered with fresh filtered air supplied 24/7.

                              #284457
                              Brydo
                              Participant

                                Don’t know what happened, i left posting on the Forum and have returned on the “off-topic”. I take it this topic has been put to bed/ sent out to pasture.

                                The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                #284458
                                wmcforum
                                Which Mobility Car

                                  It became a little niche.

                                  #284460
                                  kezo
                                  Participant

                                    You would be able to provide your MCS number so this can be checked.

                                    Do you want my NICEIC number as well, postcarding my address on a forum!

                                    I’m a cowboy now 🤣

                                    Let me tell you the difference between a MCS cowboy and a MCS tradesman. The difference is you can take a 6 week course and become MCS registered. I on the otherhand who undertook an apprenticeship and have many years knowledge in the industry undertake the same course to become MCS registerd.  The difference is you have learn’t nothing and have no background of the industry, I do!

                                    A similar short course for the clueless (unqualified), is making its way to residential EV charger installations. What could go wrong!

                                    At the same time proper folk have to go round clearing up, what is often considered an unsafe mess! And its happening to timeserved heating engineers too.

                                    The moral of the story is to always do a history check on the company you plan on using when fitting eco  devices such as HP’s solar etc.

                                    I provide advice FOC on this forum in area’s I’m qualified, its up to the individual whether they want to take that advice or not, as its not forced upon them.

                                    Luckily I do very little domestic work, infact I don’t do much these days other than the easy stuff, but you have remind me, why I have such a dislike for domestic jobs!

                                    To end the comment @Brydo has a topic going on his advancement to green, if you’d like to join in, I’m sure your posts will be welcomed. However Brydo has done a MCS heatloss calculator, I passed on and three of the installer quotes have suggested an HP of 9kW or over.

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    #284461
                                    kezo
                                    Participant

                                      Don’t know what happened, i left posting on the Forum and have returned on the “off-topic”. I take it this topic has been put to bed/ sent out to pasture.

                                      It needs to be reset back to topic and put back to the main forum and to carry on, on your existing thread in off topic.

                                      #284462
                                      Oscarmax
                                      Participant

                                         

                                        Kezo don’t waste your time or energy with these people, ‘ a little knowledge can be dangerous’ as both a qualified engineer and building surveyor I respect you postings and inputs.

                                        #284467
                                        Brydo
                                        Participant

                                          Kezo Fortunately, the Sunsynk 8.8kwh hybrid inverter has “Island mode” built-in with no set-up required is this what the automatic change over switch would do?

                                          The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                          Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                          #284472
                                          kezo
                                          Participant

                                            Kezo Fortunately, the Sunsynk 8.8kwh hybrid inverter has “Island mode” built-in with no set-up required is this what the automatic change over switch would do?

                                            An automatic changeover/transfer switch as they have been known as for years ever since the dawn of backup generators sense a voltage drop in the event of a grid powercut, transfering power to a backup source, untill grid power is restored and utomatically switches back to grid power.

                                            Islanding or island mode is much the same thing disconnecting from the grid in the event of a powercut to a backup source and switch back to the grid automatically. However some hybrid inverters will allow you to manually switch to backup mode (inverter mode to be precise) and manually switch back to grid power, irrespective of a powecut or not (manual changeover/transfer switch)

                                            Anti-islanding is also important factor for solar grid tied systems, preventing the solar array backfeeding into the grid in the event of a powercut. In battery storage systems, solar can be directed to the battery storage in the event of a powercut. Sunsync hybrid inverters have anti-islanding protection built in, along with other necessary protections.

                                            Cheers @Oscarmax 🙂

                                            #284487
                                            Oscarmax
                                            Participant

                                              Kezo Fortunately, the Sunsynk 8.8kwh hybrid inverter has “Island mode” built-in with no set-up required is this what the automatic change over switch would do?

                                              An automatic changeover/transfer switch as they have been known as for years ever since the dawn of backup generators sense a voltage drop in the event of a grid powercut, transfering power to a backup source, untill grid power is restored and utomatically switches back to grid power. Islanding or island mode is much the same thing disconnecting from the grid in the event of a powercut to a backup source and switch back to the grid automatically. However some hybrid inverters will allow you to manually switch to backup mode (inverter mode to be precise) and manually switch back to grid power, irrespective of a powecut or not (manual changeover/transfer switch) Anti-islanding is also important factor for solar grid tied systems, preventing the solar array backfeeding into the grid in the event of a powercut. In battery storage systems, solar can be directed to the battery storage in the event of a powercut. Sunsync hybrid inverters have anti-islanding protection built in, along with other necessary protections. Cheers @Oscarmax 🙂

                                              Our solar panels are fitted with a Solis inverter, our Solax Triple 5.8kWh battery is fitted with an AC Solax inverter , in the vent of a power failure our system shuts down completely. I was originally told the system would still power the house, unfortunately I know fitted that is extra.

                                              #284489
                                              kezo
                                              Participant

                                                Our solar panels are fitted with a Solis inverter, our Solax Triple 5.8kWh battery is fitted with an AC Solax inverter , in the vent of a power failure our system shuts down completely. I was originally told the system would still power the house, unfortunately I know fitted that is extra.

                                                You would need a changeover/transfer switch.

                                                As with any island system the regs surrounding it to offer not only you protection but, also offer protection on the grid side. A TT (earth rod) earthing system would be the minumum required ensuring disconnection from the suppliers earthing system when in island mode whils’t still affording you protection in the event of a fault on the backu power side. More complex earthing arrangements affording a lower sustainable zs can be connected in parallel with the suppliers earth. That said your existing earthing method may already be based on a TT system.

                                                #284594
                                                Brydo
                                                Participant

                                                  Just to finish off this particular subject I received this from Sunsynk to a question I raised about protecting the grid when running the house from an EV during a grid outage “You would need to set up an Earth Neutral Bond and set the inverter to work in island mode” I was under the impression Island mode worked automatically but apparently not.

                                                  The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                  Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                                  #284602
                                                  kezo
                                                  Participant

                                                    Just to finish off this particular subject I received this from Sunsynk to a question I raised about protecting the grid when running the house from an EV during a grid outage “You would need to set up an Earth Neutral Bond and set the inverter to work in island mode” I was under the impression Island mode worked automatically but apparently not.

                                                    see my reply to Oscarmax 🙂

                                                    I’ll check the specs of the Sunsynk because I’m sure it can be set up as automatic but could be wrong.

                                                    #284618
                                                    Brydo
                                                    Participant

                                                      👍

                                                      The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                      Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

                                                      #284647
                                                      Brydo
                                                      Participant

                                                        Kezo what do you know about the best solar panels out just now?

                                                        The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
                                                        Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

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