Discrimination

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    Topic
  • #164451 Reply
    DRDR31
    Participant

    Hello All,

    I don’t normally participate in forums but I’m absolutely fuming with the experience I’ve had with Crewe VW.

    Is anyone else sick and tired of being discriminated against?

    Basically, I tired to order a VW ID3 which they have in stock available. They refused to sell me the car on the scheme but will let me buy it privately. I asked to speak to the sale manager Steve who was rude and basically didn’t care. Straight up said, they don’t have any obligation to supply stock cars to Motability customers but said he can order me one with a 6 – 9 month wait. Car is basically sitting there isn’t sold or anything.

    Has anyone experience this with this dealer? I encourage everyone to call and leave reviews online. They should be removed from the scheme as members.

     

     

     

    • This topic was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by joss. Reason: Removed dealer details
    • This topic was modified 10 months, 3 weeks ago by joss.
Viewing 15 replies - 26 through 40 (of 40 total)
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  • #177947 Reply
    ChrisK
    Participant

    I currently follow VW private leasers and buyer and their delivery times and up to now have not seen anything different in my Motability delivery times and theirs, though I naturally thought there was the possibility of discrimination at first but now know there isn’t but will be the first to come back here and say so should I see anything different in future.

    The problem I see as Motability customers is the coming and goings of cars as you simply can’t plan for anything and this is the only advantage private buyers or leaser’s have that I can see but being a bit more more truthful about delivery time by the manufactures would be nice.

    I am in the lucky position this change over that my current car is still serving me well but I know what it is like waiting for a car when your current car isn’t suitable like my last change over was with WLTP and its worst still if you don’t have a car at all for sure.

    Hope things improve for everyone over the coming Summer.

    #177958 Reply
    DumfriesDik
    Participant

    Hope things improve for everyone over the coming Summer.

     

    If it doesn’t, the scheme can not survive as we know it. Surely.

    Mazda CX5 is my DD
    VW ID3 Max on order 5 Nov 21

    #177960 Reply
    Rene
    Participant

    It won’t. A decent guess would be Q1, maybe Q2 2023 when things go uphill again.

    And of course they’ll survive. Remember the big money pillow they got? They‘ll be fine.

    Current: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
    On Order: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

    #177978 Reply
    Heidi

    A ‘protected characteristic’ is a type of disability that comes under the Equality Act. In putting all lease services to ‘the back of the queue’ is indirect discrimination, but discrimination nonetheless. This is because the majority of people who use lease schemes are disabled. The fact that manufactures want to make money is understandable, however they can’t just decide that they will not honour a contract that will put all disabled clients at a disadvantage. Regardless of whether you agree or not, the law states that what they are doing is indirect discriminating.
    Yes, I have the evidence and have sent it to Ford and Motability. They have both gone silent on me. We had a date for 12 weeks from July and then for December. Seemed fair enough given the situation. However since December we have had no build by date. I have contacted Motability who tell me to go to Ford, and Ford tell me to go to Motability. Despite numerous emails they say they cannot give us a build by date! If it’s going to be in 6 weeks, 6 months, a year or 2 years, we do not know! That is not reasonable.  I think it is reasonable to give us some idea so we can either wait or make alternative arrangements given that information. I really don’t imagine they would just not give any indication of when to expect their car to a private seller. It remains that by law this is discrimination. Also to continue to not give us any indication of when the order could be ready, given the information they have been given regarding the nature of my sons disability and they will not make any reasonable adjustments and provide a date, is also discrimination. I do not want to detail my sons disability. I also have a Motability car and have nothing but praise for them but I do not think it is ‘reasonable’ that they do not act against discrimination against their clients. The key word is ‘reasonable’ under the Equality Act. It is reasonable to expect your order, that Ford accepted, to be dealt with in the order it was taken, and reasonable to give a timescale for this to be done, however long this maybe.
    Its not about them being compassionate nor do I expect them to be a ‘charity’. It’s about them being reasonable, honouring a contract and not indirectly discriminating!

    #177983 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    In putting all lease services to ‘the back of the queue’ is indirect discrimination, but discrimination nonetheless. This is because the majority of people who use lease schemes are disabled.

    That’s not correct Heidi. There are 600,000 Motability customers. There are  a further 1.8m company car drivers in the U.K. using lease schemes. So disabled people represent around 25% of those who use leases and ALL lease drivers are experiencing these problems (plus a good number of private ones also). Whilst completely understanding your frustration (and the current situation is indeed rubbish), , I just don’t see how it can be labelled discrimination.

    #177988 Reply
    Rene
    Participant

    Heidi wrote:
    In putting all lease services to ‘the back of the queue’ is indirect discrimination, but discrimination nonetheless. This is because the majority of people who use lease schemes are disabled.
    That’s not correct Heidi. There are 600,000 Motability customers. There are a further 1.8m company car drivers in the U.K. using lease schemes. So disabled people represent around 25% of those who use leases and ALL lease drivers are experiencing these problems (plus a good number of private ones also). Whilst completely understanding your frustration (and the current situation is indeed rubbish), , I just don’t see how it can be labelled discrimination.

    It’s way worse, actually, since you didn’t take private leasers into account.

    MB has 600.000 customers, around that number. The number of leased cars on UK roads currently, according to the BVRLA, is around 5 million. So slightly more than 10% of all leasers are MB customers.

    The argument boils down to “discrimination is not being given an advantage”, which i don’t agree with. Discrimination is not being treated equal in the same (not similar, but same) situation. It’s not discrimination against disabled if you book an economy ticket in a plane, and don’t receive a glass of bubbly like the abled woman in first class. If you want that glass of bubbly, you can buy that first class ticket, and receive it – discrimination would be if you wouldn’t receive it despite having a first class ticket. Not being able to afford said first class ticket isn’t discrimination either.

    Same here. You can choose to buy private, and be treated the exact same as any other private buyer. Or you can chose to lease, then you get treated the same as any other leaser. Not being treated like a private buyer while being a leaser isn’t discrimination.

    Discrimination would be if you buy private and get treated differently than an able bodied customer.

    In reality, what the current situation is: utter bollocks. For everyone. But not discrimination. And i say that as someone who has to wait over a year for his new car. I don’t feel discriminated against, i just feel, well, pissed off at the current situation that leads to the waiting times in the first place.

    Current: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
    On Order: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

    #177993 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    I deliberately didn’t take private lease buyers into account Rene. Whilst they are indeed leases, I believe that they count as private sales. Profit margins are obviously higher than commercial leases, so a private customer getting a car on a PCP (for example) will probably still get the same priority as a private cash buyer (maybe even more so, as PCP’s are likely to be more profitable for them). On the general point though we are in agreement. It isn’t discrimination, however frustrating it all is.

    #178023 Reply
    ajn

    With all respect to replies, if a person says they feel discriminated against then surely they have a right to question it…

    Its a bit like me poking Mr A in the eye, Mr A saying what’s all that about that hurt..

    Only for Mrs B to decide it didn’t hurt & it’s ok as I didn’t do it, all decided when not even being there..

    What we read here are peoples opinions…

    Don’t make them right though, nor wrong..

    Best get professional help IMO..

    #178027 Reply
    DumfriesDik
    Participant

    It would be nice to have a contractual obligation on the delivery date wouldn’t it?

    I hear that the ID3 changes means that current orders for Family, Max and Tour models are put to the back of the queue so that VW can concentrate on the Life model.

    Mazda CX5 is my DD
    VW ID3 Max on order 5 Nov 21

    #178035 Reply
    Georgina Walker

    BUT RENE, YOU STATE THAT YOU HAVE A CAR! AND ARE WAITING FOR ANOTHER CAR!THIS LAD HAS NOT YET GOT A CAR! THAT’S WHAT HIS MOTHER IS SAYING! THIS PLACE HAS MADE ME SHOUT NOW. THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOTS ARE SHUNTED INTO MENTAL HOSPITALS AND YOU WALTZ AROUND TALKING ABOUT 1ST CLASS MEMBERS OF THE ELITE. NO BLOODY PLANE FLEW IN LOCKDOWN UNLESS THE ILLITE DISABLED GOT ON THEM BY BEING SHUTTLED BY PAYMENTS TO GOV.ORG.UK YOU COULD NOT CARE LESS. SHAME TO MAKE ME FEEL THIS ANGRY AND YOU DON’T HELP OUR PEOPLE HERE YOU ARE SANCTAMONIOUS. PEOPLE WHO ARE DEAD CANNOT ANSWER BECAUSE OF SELF SERVING SMUG DISABLED WHO OBVIOUSLY NEED TO BE LEFT ALONE TO SURVIVE WITHOUT ANYONE’S HELP. SICKENED.FACT.

    #178044 Reply
    Ditch

    Well said 👏

    #178052 Reply
    Heidi

    Ok, so if what they are doing is completely kosher why don’t they just say that they are not going to fulfil Motability orders, or lease car orders, and private sellers are the priority?

    Why don’t they just tell us that? I suspect they won’t, and will not, because they are on very dodgy ground and they know it.

    Rene, I really don’t understand your analogy of the plane ticket at all, and I find it obtuse. The very privileged imaginary  and expecting to be treated to a ‘glass of bubbly’ is inappropriate. The whole idea of the Equality Act is that people with disabilities are given reasonable adjustments to be equal to their peers, not the privileged. Yes, having the use of a brand new car is a privilege but one that I could have paid for myself had I not suffered ill health. Should I be penalised because I have become so ill?  I don’t expect to get a Porsche or Rolls Royce, just something reliable that will enable me to have some kind of  life, so I can get out of the house knowing I can get back in time before the pain and fatigue overwhelms me. Your analogy reminds me of Marie Antoinette allegedly saying  ‘let them eat cake’.
    I would see a more appropriate analogy with school dinners. The people who have to have them subsided are told that they have to wait until everyone who has paid in full has theirs first. Before you know it the queue of everyone who has to wait is full of the underprivileged, and that many of them are disabled. There is very few disabled people in the queue who will get fed. The waiting queue are not told when or if they will be fed but to just stand there and wait for however long it takes to feed everyone else! I could take this analogy further but I won’t. I’m beginning to bore myself, and I am disheartened  that no-one on this forum can see the potential discrimination.

    I don’t know the stats for lease cars and who does or doesn’t use them, but I imagine that if they could afford to pay for a car they would. However,  I have tried to research this and I cannot find any info saying that all lease cars are not having their order’s filled in favour of private customers. Any link to such information or stats would be appreciated.

    #178054 Reply
    fwippers
    Participant

    If we look back at the actions of government,  ge so called elite, some sportspeople and so called celebrities we see, in my opinion, a degree of entitlement.  In my career, once someone reached managerial status, they received a company car and private medical insurance, and a higher salary. Fair enough.  Additionally they got their own ‘managers’ loo and separate managers dining room with waiter’s and a different menu. This was ridiculous and was scrapped at the turn of the millennium. It encouraged a feeling of self importance, the same feeling that our politicians and others display today. Unfortunately there will always be some discrimination in life, however in the  case of motability the manufacturers are going where the money is during exceptional and unprecedented times. Unfair yes, discriminatory probably but not specifically aimed at disabled. Time for some breakfast!

    #178087 Reply
    Windy
    Participant

    Knowing that this has gone on for decades little will ever change I am sure but a bit of advice.

    our last 4 cars came from stock as we are not patient waiters of cars. That said a couple of things firstly be prepared to travel always say will you sell this to Motability up front it saves wasting your time, then try and order over phone saves what can be two long trips if far away, and if it’s a big franchise one dealer can differ from another. Our current car last year we found four at one franchise spread over 4 dealers, but 3 refused and one said yes so I think sometimes it’s definitely a local decision to say yay or nay. But  I can recommend chasing cars if you have the time.

    #178094 Reply
    Oscarmax
    Participant

    Our local Motability Toyota and Kia dealerships  absolutely brilliant, Skoda and VW utterly useless point blank refused a test drive, local Ford dealerships, one excellent the other dreadful.

     

     


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4 PHEV

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