Discrimination

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    Topic
  • #164451 Reply
    DRDR31
    Participant

    Hello All,

    I don’t normally participate in forums but I’m absolutely fuming with the experience I’ve had with Crewe VW.

    Is anyone else sick and tired of being discriminated against?

    Basically, I tired to order a VW ID3 which they have in stock available. They refused to sell me the car on the scheme but will let me buy it privately. I asked to speak to the sale manager Steve who was rude and basically didn’t care. Straight up said, they don’t have any obligation to supply stock cars to Motability customers but said he can order me one with a 6 – 9 month wait. Car is basically sitting there isn’t sold or anything.

    Has anyone experience this with this dealer? I encourage everyone to call and leave reviews online. They should be removed from the scheme as members.

     

     

     

    • This topic was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by joss. Reason: Removed dealer details
    • This topic was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by joss.
Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 40 total)
  • Author
    Replies
  • #164454 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    The dealer is correct. It’s not discrimination. He will sell you the car the same as he will sell it to any other customer. What he won’t do is sell it to Motability.

    #164458 Reply
    Brydo
    Participant

    Wigwam is correct, the dealer can sell the car to whoever they like and they will make more money in a private sale. Unfortunately motability customers will almost certainly be the first to suffer during supply shortages and, as we have a perfect storm of chip shortages, the pandemic and brexit we are suffering unprecedented shortages.

    In saying that it doesn’t make what’s happened to you OK.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe.
    Anything i post over three lines long please assume it is an article lol.

    #164460 Reply
    kbfern

    I visited a VW dealer this week not very local to me and he would take an order off me for an ID3 or ID4 on a factory order. He has vehicles on order with VW that are not pre sold and he was able to offer one of those with build week 2 so delivery into UK around Feb/Mar so ask them if they have any free future stock vehicles they can allocate to you.

     

     

    #164461 Reply
    DRDR31
    Participant

    Thanks for your replies. It really doesn’t sit well with me. I understand they can sell to whoever they want but most of us didn’t choose to be disabled. On top of that as well we are treated like second class citizens in these dealerships.

    I think all dealers should sell the car to motability if it’s available in stock regardless of the circumstances if they have committed to being members. After all, motability is a charity isn’t it..  I ‘feel’ horrible after that ordeal.

    #164464 Reply
    Mike 700
    Participant

    The dealer is carrying out instructions handed down by  VW , ultimately , I guess?

    It is nevertheless clearly a case of ‘discrimination’ , but probably by VW not by the dealer?

    You will no doubt note that other ‘contract hire’, ‘leasing ‘ deals for immediate delivery VW’s are freely available?

    It would be interesting to see Motability take VW and others manufacturers to court over this, but it is unlikely to happen – ever , as they would be shooting themselves in the foot?

    We disabled are getting the short straw again

     

     

    #164465 Reply
    Rene
    Participant

    After all, motability is a charity isn’t it..

    Volkswagen isn’t, though.

    We’re in a year where car manufacturers took up to 50% losses. It’s kinda entitled to argue that they should wave their own wellbeing (selling cars at higher price) to suit yours – which only amounts to “reduced waiting time”. Yes, they “committed” to the scheme – that’s why you can order a VW in the first place.

    Current: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
    On Order: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

    #164466 Reply
    James

    My friend went through this same issue and several dealers said the same thing, stock cars not for motability. He did manage to find a dealer prepared to let a stock car go though but it had to go that month which worked for him.

    You watch when this shortage is over they’ll be desperate for you to take stock cars

    #164467 Reply
    Mike 700
    Participant

    This from my dealer today –

     

    Volkswagen have not built any stock cars for 3 months Just building sold cars
    The pipe line is empty of nearly every model ..
    What ever you go for will be a factory order now

    #164473 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    And that’s the reality, Mike700.

    We the disabled are not getting the short straw again, are we?

    I’m sure you aren’t suggesting that during this shortage the rest of society should step back so we can get a new car on preferential terms that they can’t get?

    #164474 Reply
    Rene
    Participant

    It’s a moot point anyway.

    The very fact that you certainly can buy a car from (dwindling) stock is factually proof that disabled people aren’t discriminated against. You can buy a car just like every abled person.

    You just have to pay the same price. If you don’t want to, or simply can’t (i know we can’t and have no qualms admitting it), i don’t think it’s too much to ask to wait in line until you get your brand new £35k car.

    Discrimination against disabled would be if you couldn’t buy a car privately because you’re disabled. Not getting a car as fast as a private buyer (ignoring all other benefits of Motability that a private customer doesn’t get) isn’t discrimination. In my opinion anyway.

    Current: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
    On Order: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

    #164475 Reply
    ChrisK
    Participant

    You will no doubt note that other ‘contract hire’, ‘leasing ‘ deals for immediate delivery VW’s are freely available?

    Not only discriminators but liars too as this is what my dealer said when I asked why we’re being discriminated against…

    …”VW made a decision to stop ALL fleet business supply not just Motability so the retail market can still operate.”

    … and you can still lease hire from there site to this day.

     

     

     

    #164477 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Isn’t lease hire is just another form of financing a new car, ChrisK?  Still a retail sale in effect, not a sale to a company fleet.

    #164486 Reply
    Mike 700
    Participant

    At one time, Fleet Sales were a way of car manufacturers shifting volume, at the expense of profit, but for many years now, this has been turned on its head, in that Fleet Sales have become ( for some ) a lucrative source of income / profit!

    So Fleet Sales, albeit that there may be less profit per unit than retail sales, are important in that volume sales even with lower profits will keep a business and supporting businesses going far better than lower volume sales with higher profits per unit, and there is a guarantee (almost ) of shifting higher volumes, keeping factories, suppliers, distributors going etc.

    Take the example of a hyper market selling volume at low profit compared to the competition selling lower volumes at sky high prices – which is the most successful ?

    At the’right’ AP / price, volume can be achieved via Motability and is almost guaranteed and is better advertised ( just look at thy huge volume of free advertising and word of mouth recommendations just on this Forum ) compared to hoping for a retail sale?

    Of course, I am biased, in that I am disabled, and a retired banker dealing with fleet sales from both a leasing / lending point of view, and as a customer ( my guys had company cars and I had the budget to pay for them ), but the fact that some disabled get a better deal with Motability than they would via a normal leasing co, is not the business of the Manufacturer, nor the distributor.

    If Motability is being penalised compared to other leasing companies, this is discrimination , for whatever reason, then surely Motability customers ie the Disabled are also being discriminated against?

     

    #164488 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    “If Motability is being penalised compared to other leasing companies, this is discrimination , for whatever reason, then surely Motability customers ie the Disabled are also being discriminated against?”

    Agreed, depending on the agreements Motability have with the trade. But is that happening?

    #164491 Reply
    DRDR31

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>It’s very interesting to hear other people’s opinions on this topic. Thanks to everyone who participated.</p>

    #177875 Reply
    Heidi

    This is obviously discrimination and I don’t see how anyone can argue it isn’t! My son ordered his car with Ford last July, they happily took his deposit, gave a date for in 12 weeks. This was moved back to December. Since then we’ve had no build by date and Ford continue to refuse to give us one! I’ve asked what is their policy on allocation because we can see online that private buyer are not only getting build by dates, but their cars! It’s now 7 months. On YouTube over the last few days we see that the Ford  Focus for demonstration! Why if they can’t fulfill orders they have! This is the first time he has been on the scheme so he has no car in the meantime! This is having a devastating effect upon my son! He is extremely upset and completely lost his independence.  Once you take into account his age and he can only drive an automatic his choice come down to 15 cars he could potentially order but still be waiting for ever! This is a disgrace. I’ve told Ford and Motability that this is discrimination but they just say there is nothing they can do! Motability say he can just cancel his order! What a stupid annoying solution is that? A bone solution!  Flippant, rude and completely useless advice! If it’s not discrimination why don’t they be honest that they are prioritising private buyers? Peeps who’ve been discriminated against need to get together to take them to court. Motability are just as complicit as they do nothing and they are advertising this service! Obviously I am damn angry! Disabled clients should have priority especially if they don’t have a car! I hate discrimination! Who’s gonna fight. Power to the disabled peeps! ✊🏼

    #177876 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Did you read the other posts on this thread, Heidi? The points you raise have already been well covered.

    #177894 Reply
    Masquerade
    Participant

    Heidi, by saying “Disabled clients should have priority especially if they don’t have a car!” could very well be seen as discrimination against the able bodied, giving one group/category priority over another due to identifiable reasons will always be seen as discrimination.

    I agree with most of what has already been said by others, there is no discrimination in what the manufacturers or dealers are doing, they are running businesses that operated on money and not good vibes and karma, money smells the same to all of them, no matter who is coughing it up, regardless of race, sex, religion and so on but remember that private buyers far, far, far exceed Motability customers.

    My thoughts and prayers go out to all the countries invaded and occupied by the West. Palestinians who have been under 74 years of brutal occupation by an apartheid entity. Those plundered for their natural resources, those invaded for their geographical positioning, those slaughtered for being ethnic, those starved for standing up to injustices and those victims of colonial expansionism! Humanity is only humanity when all are treated the same regardless of their skin tone, religious beliefs and geography!

    #177895 Reply
    Heidi

    You clearly have no concept of what discrimination means and how it is defined. People with disabilities should be give advantages so that they are on an equal standing as the person who doesn’t have disabilities. It is called ‘reasonable adjustments’. To put someone with a ‘protected characteristic’ at a disadvantage, or further down the waiting list because they have a disability, as a mobility person clearly is, then it is discrimination. I suggest you actually read the Equality Act 2010 to actually understand the law prior to such discriminatory comments.
    Also I have the same right as anyone to put down my experience and that is the aim of any forum. Wigwam, whoever you are, you do not have the right to try to shut me down saying this has been covered because clearly it isn’t, just because you’ve had your say isn’t the end of it! How rude and narcissistic! This is discrimination as the law dictates. It’s not about money and their ‘rights’ to make more money, I think these huge organisations do not go without. Their profits are astronomical. They have a contract with Motability and they should honour it. They cannot discriminate and say their not going supply cars for disabled people because they’d rather sell them to able bodied people who pay more, because they’d rather make more money ffs! That is persecuting a whole raft of people with disabilities. People with disabilities usually can’t work and can’t afford to buy a car. That is not their fault regardless of profits. If a company said ‘oh you can’t work here because we’d have to pay for a ramp to be put in’ don’t you think that would be discrimination? Ofcourse it is! Their not lazy insignificant people who can just be told, oh we had a agreement with you but basically because you disabled and we can make more money elsewhere we’ve change our minds and you can go to the back of the queue! Are you completely stupid!  They may have the discretion to not sell a car to any particular person as anyone does, but they cannot systematically turn people from Motability customers away, this is discrimination. To give a Motability customer a priority, I said clearly, because they should make reasonable adjustments and without transport people with disabilities cannot go out, work , socialise, do anything! That would put them at an equal standing as an able bodied person! I’d be happy if they just honoured our place in the queue but that clearly isn’t happening. They are putting a disabled person in a much more disadvantage position, that is discrimination. I take your comments as complete nonsense and bullying. You are completely misinforming people on this forum! Do you have no compassion. Btw I’m an ex CAB adviser and I have taken  discrimination cases to court, and won. What do you do? Do you both work in the car industry? Do either of you actually have any disabilities? Do you have cars?

    Me thinks you doth protest too much!

    #177899 Reply
    DumfriesDik
    Participant

    Out of interest, on the VW ID3 specific forum, people are waiting at least six months before they hear from their dealer, regardless of how the car is being ordered. Lease, purchase or PCP etc.. People are cancelling their orders and going elsewhere. It is a dire situation but we are all in the same boat I fear and it is very frustrating.

    I am surprised, Heidi, that your son had to pay a deposit up front. It might be worth considering joining a Ford model specific forum to get a feel with delivery times and share yours. Hopefully the car will arrive soon for your son.

    I don’t recognise everything you say, I have been on the scheme for decades. We are coming out of a global crisis that has had an impact on the car industry the likes we have not seen before. Lack of chips and the pandemic have played havoc. I am pleased to tell you that my previous Motability car orders, in normal times, were a lot smoother and quicker.

    Hopefully, things will only get better.

     

    Mazda CX5 is my DD
    VW ID3 Max on order 5 Nov 21

    #177904 Reply
    ajn

    It can get very frustrating waiting, even worse if no transport, then add the parental protection of a Son Daughter or loved one must be even more frustrating..

    Coming onto the scheme at the moment seems the worst time in history..

    #177908 Reply
    DumfriesDik
    Participant

    Coming onto the scheme at the moment seems the worst time in history..

    Spot on.

    Mazda CX5 is my DD
    VW ID3 Max on order 5 Nov 21

    #177920 Reply
    Heidi

    If anyone feels they are being discriminated against check with these people. https://www.equalityadvisoryservice.com/app/home

    if you are being treated unfairly by a service, whether it is a public or private one, because you have a protected characteristic, and by definition someone on the Motability scheme obviously has a disability, then it is discrimination. Nowhere in the Equality Act does it say anything about businesses being allowed to discriminate because they can get more money elsewhere! Motability clients are being put to the back of the queue because they are disabled. That is discrimination!  Simples!
    Yes I have been on a ford site, hence aware that private customers are getting their build by dates and cars within the time we have had our order in. He paid a deposit because the car has an extra charge, as any decent car on the scheme does.
    If Ford had been honest from the beginning and said we can’t fulfil this order, fine, we would have gone elsewhere! As it is my son is in limbo! No build date and no option to go elsewhere now as so many dealers have withdrawn their cars. They have intentionally mislead us, and I am sure many others, and were well aware at the time if chip shortages! This is not an excuse, this has been known for some considerable time now and was when we put the order in. It is not just the time waiting that annoys me, what annoys me is that private clients are obviously getting their cars before us!  Can a huge organisation really not project what they can and cannot do within the resources they have, or could it be greed that warrant them taking orders they can’t complete? In fulfilling private orders as a priority over Motability is putting people who has a disability at a disadvantage. As such it is unlawful.

    I came on here because I was concerned about what I was reading tbh. That people feel it is ok to discriminate because there has been a global crisis. Or they say it’s not discrimination, or they have no concept of what discrimination is! It has been a global crisis for disabled people too!  Discrimination is never to be tolerated.

    #177921 Reply
    Glos Guy
    Participant

    Heidi – I’m sorry to hear about your sons problems and can completely understand your frustration and his. I don’t believe that it’s discrimination however, because the issue is not unique to Motability and therefore not unique to disabled people. All lease companies have gone to the bottom of the list at present. With such limited supply, dealers and manufacturers (all of whom have had a torrid few years) are understandably giving priority to the customers from whom they can make the most money – private buyers. That’s not discrimination, that’s business. They aren’t charities after all, they are out to maximise profits.

    Your sons problem seems to stem from the fact that the dealer lied about lead times to get his order. We spoke to a Ford dealer last March and he said that any car ordered then would take 10 months minimum. The problem had worsened by July when your son ordered, so to say it would be just 12 weeks was never going to happen.

    Although private customers are getting priority it’s not a whole lot better for them either. I have started looking to replace one of my daughters cars as a private customer. The Ford dealer that I mentioned said that the same lead time would apply to a private order and our local Hyundai dealer said that most of their range would be a minimum of 24 weeks, even though they have been less affected by the chip shortage than most manufacturers. We were very lucky and took delivery of a Motability BMW X1 last summer after a wait of less than four months, but the dealer (who I know well) had private customers who were waiting longer than us for the same car.

    #177924 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Heidi, I’m sorry if you feel I was trying to shut you down. My reading of your post led me to believe you hadn’t read through what had been discussed before, and it didn’t seem you were bringing anything new to the argument.

    As I understand it there are two issues. If a dealer takes an order from a private buyer and an order from a Motability scheme user, and then prioritises the private buyer in any way, that is clearly discrimination. If you have evidence of that you can act. If the dealer or manufacturer chooses not to supply cars to the scheme, that’s a commercial decision and perfectly within his right.  Disability is only one of the protected characteristics in law.  Parents with small children are also included in the definition.  It can’t be the case that car manufacturers or dealers should be required to give them some sort of priority when selling new cars.

     

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