Could Prime Minister Boris Johnson break up the UK?

This topic contains 1,007 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Brydo 1 week, 5 days ago.

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  • #83405 Reply
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    Brydo
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    The Scottish Conservative (and Unionist) party has enjoyed something of resurgence in recent years under the energetic leadership of Ruth Davidson.

    The party’s opponents are convinced that Boris Johnson as prime minister could put an end to all that – and could even put an end to the union between Scotland the rest of the UK.

    It’s true that Mr Johnson could hardly be more different from the down to earth, plain speaking and Remain-voting Ms Davidson. The two are not friends and have vehemently disagreed before.

    Some observers like to speculate that Boris will appear to Scottish voters to be the very epitome of the upper-class English ruling caste that Scots so dislike. But policy may well prove to be more important than personality.

    Mr Johnson appeared to have a weak grasp of the dynamics of devolution when he proposed tax changes that take no account of the fact that income tax rates in Scotland are set by the Scottish Parliament.

    But since then he has promised Scottish Tory MPs he will set up a “union unit” inside No 10 to check every policy. If he knows what he doesn’t know, then maybe he can avoid these gaffes as PM.

    It’s Brexit that may be his undoing, in so many ways. In Remain-voting Scotland, his problem is that the idea of a no deal Brexit is far less palatable than it is in the rest of the UK. The harder the Brexit Boris delivers, the more the Tory party in Scotland could suffer.

    If Prime Minister Johnson [he will officially take on the role this Wednesday] pursues a Brexit policy at odds with what most voters in Scotland would like to see, then it’s possible they may change their minds about whether remaining part of the UK is in their best interests. Some recent polling evidence suggests as many as 60% of voters could vote “yes” to independence if we leave the EU with no deal.

    In the end it may not be the precise details of any Brexit deal that stokes desire for independence – or indeed the character of any individual politician – but a sense that Scotland has different aspirations from the rest of the UK, which can’t be reconciled within the current union.

    If Mr Johnson wants to keep the kingdom united, he will need to take care not fan those flames.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

Viewing 25 replies - 551 through 575 (of 1,007 total)
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  • #87890 Reply
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    Wigwam
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    Majority of Scots would vote to ‘remain in the UK’, according to new poll
    Written by: Kevin Schofield
    Posted On:
    18th September 2019
    A clear majority of Scots would vote to “remain” in the UK if there was another referendum on independence, according to a new poll.
    It is exactly five years since the first Scottish referendum.Credit:
    PA Images
    The survey, commissioned to mark the fifth anniversary of the first referendum, showed that 59% of voters north of the Border would reject leaving the UK if that was the question on the ballot paper.

    Meanwhile, only 41% said they would vote “leave”.

    #87892 Reply
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    Wigwam
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    POPS, are the Scottish a race, in your book?  Just asking…

    #87893 Reply
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    POPS
    Moderator

    Brydo’s put up with a lot of the anti Scottish references very well in my opinion and has shown a good sense of humour in replying to the “Haggis bashing”.

    Race and ethnicity cannot and should not define a union of disparate people seeking to co exist in a populous society.

    I’m sure your question was tongue in cheek Wigwam, but I’ve given you an answer anyway.

     

     

    #87900 Reply
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    fwippers
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    No Deal panic sets in in Germany as the UK continues talks with Oz about a free trade deal and Daniel Hannan says a no deal Brexit is now more likely. Court case continues.

    #87905 Reply
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    Brydo

    Wigwam independence polls have been up and down over the months. I think it is 50/50  on independence with remain probably slight favourite.

    #87906 Reply
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    Mike 700
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    Of course these people have their own agendas Brydo, and that’s being a realist not a cynic!

    Did you see the last PMQ’s when Michael Gove stood in for the then PM, and frankly, annihilated Vladimir Corbyn in the debate- slaughtered him, dissected him, and kicked the bits into the rubbish bin?

    He showed Corbyn up for what he is – a liar, a cheat , a racist an anti U.K. commie, an economic incompetent etc etc etc.

    So Brydo, I think that labelling all Tories as liars without reference to the liar in chief Jeremy Corbyn, is way off the mark!

    Not only is Vladimir Corbyn anti Semitic and anti U.K. and included in his agenda, undoubtedly is that he would sell us down the river to instil a Marxist economic policy / theory in the U.K., which (if only people would open their eyes ) is liikely cost far far more than a no deal Brexit will?

    #87930 Reply
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    Wigwam
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    Brydo, re polls. Interesting how the question asked gets different results.  Do you want independence yes/no gets higher ratings than do you want to remain in the UK/ leave the UK.

    #87949 Reply
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    brydo

    Yes wigwam it is interesting and I unfortunately don’t have the answer lol.

    I’ve been watching some of the Gina Millar trial and find it difficult for the Judge’s to make any decision. I listen to one side’s evidence and think they’ve nailed it, then the other side do the same.

    I believe they will find in favour of the government as intent is very difficult to prove. I have no doubt BJ prorogued Parliament for his own reasons but there is nothing in law to stop him doing it.

    #87950 Reply
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    Wigwam
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    I’ve avoided watching it. I’ve had to spend too long in the past listening to the tedium of barristers.

    #87953 Reply
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    brydo

    I take it you got out early for good behavior lol.

    #87954 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Au contraire, Brydo. I served my time….

    #87958 Reply
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    Brydo

    Brexit: UK shares confidential documents with EU

    Confidential documents that “reflect the ideas the UK has put forward” on Brexit have been shared with the EU, the UK government says.

    A statement said it will table “formal written solutions when we are ready” and not to an “artificial deadline”.

    It comes after Finland’s prime minister said Boris Johnson has 12 days to set out his Brexit plans to the EU.

    The European Commission said documents had been received and technical talks will now take place.

    The commission’s chief spokesperson Mina Andreeva also confirmed there will be talks at a political level at a meeting on Friday between the EU’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier and Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay.

    The technical discussions will be on some aspects of rules relating to customs, manufactured goods, sanitary and phytosanitary – which relates to the health of plants, she said.

    UK ‘has 12 days to set out Brexit plans’
    Kuenssberg: Politics, not process, will make the difference
    Brexit talks ‘should not be a pretence’ – Barnier
    Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said he wants to leave the EU, preferably with a deal, on 31 October and has urged the EU to scrap the backstop in the withdrawal agreement.

    The backstop is the controversial policy aimed at preventing the return of a hard border on the island of Ireland and it has been a key sticking point in former PM Theresa May’s Brexit deal.

    The EU has asked for alternative suggestions and had criticised the UK for not putting any plans in writing.

    A UK government statement said: “We have now shared in written form a series of confidential technical non-papers which reflect the ideas the UK has been putting forward.

    “We will table formal written solutions when we are ready, not according to an artificial deadline, and when the EU is clear that it will engage constructively on them as a replacement for the backstop.”

    #87965 Reply
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    Wigwam
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    “The EU has been working on a trade agreement with the Mercosur countries; Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, and Uruguay for over twenty years. The deal has hit roadblocks today after left-wing and protectionist parties in Austria voted to reject the deal, which would wipe away the EU’s tariffs.”

    Because every one of the 27 has different priorities when it comes to trade – what a system!

    #87985 Reply
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    brydo

    For brexiteers, don’t say I’m not good to you.

     

    #87986 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Are you drifting towards the dark side, Brydo?

    #87987 Reply
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    Brydo

    Just being hospitable to my off topic friends

    #87988 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Brexit Party ladies for Mike?

    #87990 Reply
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    Mike

    Wigwam I’m banned from saying lovely ladies

    #87991 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    WW, Brydo,

     

    just downloaded IOS 13 on to my iPhone.

    Yet another way to get to the dark side?

    #87993 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    Reports coming in tonight-

    A Brexit deal can be done with the UK before October 31st.,<i> and the backstop</i> <i>can be removed</i>, Jean-Claude Juncker has said.

    The European Commission president said a no-deal Brexit would be “catastrophic” for both the UK and EU,…

    I really hope that BoJo gets a deal, for the sake of the Country, rather than himself, or the Tory party, and if he pulls it off, I for one, will be so glad to see the red faces of the anti – people  , anti – democracy , anti U.K., Remainers ‘ in Parliament, followed by their swift demise at an early General Election?

    #87997 Reply
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    fwippers
    Participant

    A deal could be on the cards, suddenly everyone is working towards it. A deal and an election?

    #87999 Reply
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    Brydo

    Mrs May’s deal minus the backstop. Are we ok with that?

    #88000 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/draft_withdrawal_agreement_0.pdf

     

    this is the Draft Agreement Brydo, all 585 pages of it – it makes good bedtime reading!

    Time to make up our own minds I think ?

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Avatar Mike 700.
    #88001 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    I’m not ok with it Brydo, as you might imagine. I will post why not tomorrow!

    #88003 Reply
    Avatar
    Wigwam
    Participant

    Not tomorrow, but here’s why not. The withdrawal agreement, even without the backstop, is Brexit in Name Only:

    “This Agreement – even without the ‘Backstop’ – will put the UK under the de facto jurisdiction of a group of 27 foreign powers, leaving the UK powerless to veto laws or procedures affecting the UK and its citizens. (Articles 4, 86, 87, 89, 132, 168, 174)
    The EU27 can make decisions behind closed doors which can profoundly affect British businesses, citizens, and the economy. They can impose new taxes on the UK and prevent state aid, crippling vital industries as well as the UK’s all-important financial sector. Parliament will be able to do nothing about it. (Articles 86, 93, 95, 132 (2c), 159)
    It gives the EU an effective veto on our foreign policy too. We will not be allowed to undertake “any action or initiative” which the EU thinks might damage the EU’s interests, and it positions UK defence under the EU Global Strategy, threatening our position in the ‘Five Eyes’ intelligence alliance, and unacceptably constraining our freedom of action on the world stage. (Articles 129, 132, 156-157)
    Any amended Northern Ireland Protocol will impose existing and new Single Market rules, with no UK say over them, and it will effectively split off Northern Ireland, breaking the United Kingdom in two. (Protocol Ireland/NI, esp. Art.6)
    No taking back control

    The UK will remain under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. This will last during ‘transition’ and the agreement makes provision to extend this until 01 Jan 2023. (Articles 4, 6(2), 87, 95, 128, 132, 158, 168, 174)
    In some parts of the law, British courts will have to obey the EU’s courts for over 100 years. (Article 39)
    We will have no control of our waters for the UK’s fishermen and we will not be able to make ourselves more competitive on the world stage for our industry or service sectors. (Articles 130, 185 (Art. 6 of the NI Protocol); Article 129 (7))
    No trade deals, a continuation of the trade deficit, and continuing to subsidise the EU27

    The UK will have no right to do international free trade deals – a key economic benefit of Brexit – because it must stick to protectionist EU tariffs. The British public will not benefit from an independent trade policy, which would result in cheaper imported goods and stronger exports. (Articles 40-49, 75-78, 127, 129 (4), 132)
    The EU can do new free trade agreements with other countries, and the UK will have to match the new lower tariffs, but the countries involved will not have to offer the new low tariffs to the UK. (See 8. above)
    Instead, our £100bn annual trade deficit with the EU will continue – a deficit which means lost jobs and lost money which could be spent on services, infrastructure and investment at home.
    The Agreement will mean the UK paying the biggest divorce settlement in history, over £39 billion, with no new UK-EU trade deal in return. The final amount will be decided by the EU, with no say by the UK. (138-144, 152-155)
    This is not Brexit in any way, shape, or form, and doesn’t even give us a trade deal

    The Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration – even without ‘the Backstop’ – lock the UK into a continuing and subservient relationship with the EU, agreeing to match and ‘build upon’ current arrangements, giving away money, sovereignty, laws, and even decisions on the very composition of the United Kingdom itself.
    The UK will not be a truly sovereign nation until we leave the EU completely.
    A clean-break Brexit is now the only way to go forward.”

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