Could Prime Minister Boris Johnson break up the UK?

This topic contains 1,007 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Brydo 1 week, 5 days ago.

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    Brydo
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    The Scottish Conservative (and Unionist) party has enjoyed something of resurgence in recent years under the energetic leadership of Ruth Davidson.

    The party’s opponents are convinced that Boris Johnson as prime minister could put an end to all that – and could even put an end to the union between Scotland the rest of the UK.

    It’s true that Mr Johnson could hardly be more different from the down to earth, plain speaking and Remain-voting Ms Davidson. The two are not friends and have vehemently disagreed before.

    Some observers like to speculate that Boris will appear to Scottish voters to be the very epitome of the upper-class English ruling caste that Scots so dislike. But policy may well prove to be more important than personality.

    Mr Johnson appeared to have a weak grasp of the dynamics of devolution when he proposed tax changes that take no account of the fact that income tax rates in Scotland are set by the Scottish Parliament.

    But since then he has promised Scottish Tory MPs he will set up a “union unit” inside No 10 to check every policy. If he knows what he doesn’t know, then maybe he can avoid these gaffes as PM.

    It’s Brexit that may be his undoing, in so many ways. In Remain-voting Scotland, his problem is that the idea of a no deal Brexit is far less palatable than it is in the rest of the UK. The harder the Brexit Boris delivers, the more the Tory party in Scotland could suffer.

    If Prime Minister Johnson [he will officially take on the role this Wednesday] pursues a Brexit policy at odds with what most voters in Scotland would like to see, then it’s possible they may change their minds about whether remaining part of the UK is in their best interests. Some recent polling evidence suggests as many as 60% of voters could vote “yes” to independence if we leave the EU with no deal.

    In the end it may not be the precise details of any Brexit deal that stokes desire for independence – or indeed the character of any individual politician – but a sense that Scotland has different aspirations from the rest of the UK, which can’t be reconciled within the current union.

    If Mr Johnson wants to keep the kingdom united, he will need to take care not fan those flames.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

Viewing 25 replies - 476 through 500 (of 1,007 total)
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    Mike 700
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    ZZ.,Thank you for your reply,

    I do see where you are coming from, but ‘naturally’ disagree, in that each of the cases revolves around prorogation which I think we have established is clearly a political matter, and in the gift of the Head of State, as advised ( not just by ) her Prime Minister – reasons for and length of are political matters!

    In giving a judgement, the Court in Scotland must therefore have based their decision on the opinion that prorogation is not in fact just a political matter, and that they therefore could involve the court.

    In making this judgement ( which should be put aside on appeal to the Supreme Court although I note the 50/50 thoughts ) and involving the Scottish Court , not only have they gone against the opinion of both the English and NI courts, they have branded the Prime Minister a liar, in that ‘once again, in their opinion , the PM had lied to the Head of State in order to secure her approval for the prorogation (but there is no proof of this , as it was a private meeting between the Privy Council and the Queen , nor I accept is there no denial ,but accusations alone are insufficient to make a judgement ) and further, that this unproven accusation was in order to reduce the time available for Parliament to debate ‘a no deal Brexit ‘ – well, that is also ‘very clearly’ a political matter, and therefore no business whatsoever of the courts.

    That everyone knows the reason for proroguing is clearly not a fact, we all have an opinion true, and we all I think are of ‘the opinion ‘ that Politicians lie through their teeth as easily as breathing, I certainly am, and have been for many years since providing evidence/information to them ( all parties, without exception ) at meetings in private offices , the dining rooms, and in the Committee Rooms back in the days of yore, but again this is my jaundiced opinion , not proof.

    My objection to the Court Cases is that it appears that the Courts are allowing any individual the right to challenge the Government in Court on any matter that he or she disagrees with, but my main argument in this whole sorry affair is ‘that it all matters regarding prorogation are political, and it therefore follows that the Scottish Court interfered in a political matter ‘, over which they have no jurisdiction’ , but only time and legal opinion of course will prove me right or wrong, and I also challenge the expression ‘the law is the law’ , and ask the question ‘what law’ has been broken ?

    Good to debate this with you!

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Avatar Mike 700.
    #87515 Reply
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    Mike 700
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    WW. Funny that Eh?

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Avatar Mike 700.
    #87555 Reply
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    Brydo
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    Will the last Tory MP out put the lights off lol.

    Former Conservative MP Sam Gyimah has joined the Liberal Democrats.

    Six MPs have defected to the party in recent weeks, including former Tory MP Philip Lee, and ex-Labour MPs Luciana Berger and Chuka Umunna.

    Mr Gyimah was one of the 21 Tories who had the Conservative whip removed after rebelling against Boris Johnson in a bid to prevent a no-deal Brexit.

    Last December, the East Surrey MP quit as science and universities minister in a row over Theresa May’s Brexit deal.

    The 43-year-old briefly stood in the race to become Conservative Party leader after Mrs May quit.

    The Lib Dems currently have 18 MPs, having been boosted by a victory in the Brecon and Radnorshire by-election and the defections.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49703214

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87557 Reply
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    Brydo
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    Facebook removes altered Conservative advertisement

    Facebook has removed a Conservative Party advert which misrepresented a BBC News story.

    The ad carried a BBC logo and headline saying “£14 billion pound cash boost for schools” – despite the story it linked to putting the figure at £7.1bn.

    The social media giant say the Tories had “misused” its advertising platform and it was working to stop headlines being changed in this way.

    The party has said it is reviewing the way its Facebook adverts are produced.

    The advert started running on 2 September following a government announcement on new funding for primary and secondary schools in England.

    Who will regulate digital political ads?
    Tory Facebook advert altered BBC headline
    Clicking on the ad took readers to a story on the BBC News website by Sean Coughlan, with the headline “Multi-billion pound cash boost for schools”.

    Analysis in the story queried the government’s claims about its additional funding, with the BBC’s head of statistics, Robert Cuffe, explaining the government was not calculating the spending increase in the usual way.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49701027

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87561 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    The nearer it gets to Halloween Brydo, the more desperate ‘remain’ become it seems?

    These are non stories and added to the wheeling out of DC who immediately attacks the PM , and Gove which the BBC gets all exited about, really is desperation ’in spades’!

    Expect a flood of this nonsense by the end of October?

    #87581 Reply
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    Mike

    Just saw Jo Swinson on Andrew marr show spoke very well and looked very nice I didn’t know she was Scottish Brydo ?

    #87615 Reply
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    fwippers
    Participant

    Read today Boris may be willing to break the law and deliver no deal. Good show.

    #87616 Reply
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    DougieB
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    Just saw Jo Swinson on Andrew marr show spoke very well and looked very nice I didn’t know she was Scottish Brydo ?

    Given come of the things she said, including the claim that she was going for a majority LibDem government with her as pm, I suspect that she’d simply popped into the studio halfway through a walk of shame after a heavy night out on the lash.

    Current car: Kia Sportage 2.0 KX3 CRDI AWD auto.

    Coming soon: VW Tiguan R-Line Tech auto in nice shiny black. 🙂

    #87617 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Do you really mean that fwipperie?

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87619 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    According to the Daily Mail:

    #87621 Reply
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    Zelda
    Participant

    Hiya peeps 🙂

    New member, very happy to stumble across some fellow leave voters 🙂 I hope you don’t mind me jumping in but w00t! a political/brexit thread to haunt 😀

    I’ve had a very quick look at a few pages and i noticed on one of the earliest pages i think, that Brydo? said that should Scots gain independence, Scotland would be able to set it’s own VAT rate.

    I don’t know if anyone picked him up on it but was wondering if brydo realised that VAT is an eu imposed tax. Currently, the eu demands VAT be set at a minimum of 15%, as we all know, the UK government currently sets our rate at 20%.

    As a wholly independent entity, of course Scotland could set it’s own VAT rate, or even abolish it if it wanted, though i think a Scots government would have to have some way, beyond just relying on income tax, to take pennies off people.

     

    With regard to the question posed in the thread title. If the UK were to break up, that would surely be down to the citizens of those member countries, not Boris.

    Beyond that, it puzzles me greatly, why some Scots ask for independence but are then so willing to immediately give that independence up to rejoin the eu? It rather strikes me that that would be a matter of jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

     

    Anyhoo, that’s enough for a first post i think. As i said, i hope you don’t mind me jumping in but i really couldn’t resist 🙂

     

    #87627 Reply
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    Zelda
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    Sorry didn’t mean to assume that Brydo was male, i should have put he/she 🙂 apologies, brydo 🙂

     

    then again maybe i should have also added furry/ornate building/animal/vegetable/mineral/other  as well, these days 😉

    #87633 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Welcome to the thread, Zelda. I’m sure Brydo will be along shortly to assert his/her masculinity…

    #87634 Reply
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    ZZleeZZ
    Participant

    Hmm, sorry, I’m out.

    It’s getting a bit too Daily Mail in here. Have at it.

    #87636 Reply
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    Mike

    Zelda Brydo is a Scottish Man who we all regard on here for his views on love island etc

    #87638 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Mike, why did you have to mention that programme again? I’d done my best to erase your discussions of it from my memory.

    #87658 Reply
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    brydo

    Brydo, you might want to rethink this post.

     

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Avatar POPS. Reason: unsuitable
    #87660 Reply
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    fwippers
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    I see the Lib Dems have now become an extremist party as they are vowing to ignore democracy. I have a feeling their latest ploy is going to cost them, net, a lot of votes. I cannot take their “new” MP’s seriously. I’m not sure the above comment is worthy of this thread, viz use of “f” word?

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Avatar fwippers.
    #87663 Reply
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    Brydo
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    I agree fwipperie, it’s a bold step by the Lib Dem’s but not an intelligent one. There are many voters, on both sides, who question if they would vote the same way again. Most of those would defend the right for the people to have their say, the Lib Dem’s will lose many of these voters by this action.

    fwipperie you speak of democracy yet in a previous post you applaud BJ for breaking the law.

    You can’t have it both ways, although it appears Brexiteers would like it that way.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87668 Reply
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    JS
    Moderator

    Even if the lib dems did ignore the 2016 referendum and simply remain, the goventment would fall. Don’t underestimate the passion and principles of those that voted and those that didn’t bother but believe in democracy, I believe there would be uproar and along side the riots the knock on effect would be millions would then refuse to pay things like council tax etc. It would cripple the country (the Whole country)

    #87669 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    JS was Gerard Butler in that movie 🎥. A touch over the top I think.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87670 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    I can’t see Johnson choosing to break the law, but I read that the argument will be put that as EU law has precedent over UK law and as the Withdrawal Act 2018 was made in accordance with the Treaty law it has the effect of  EU law. The blocking Act which is only UK law then fails.

     

    #87673 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    BJ meeting JCJ today, wouldn’t happen if there was nothing to talk about.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87674 Reply
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    wmcforum
    Which Mobility Car

    Plenty to talk about but they will be trying to butter him up to speed things through before he leaves office on 1st November and the  German lady takes over, they are gambling on JCJ wanting to get Brexit on his CV and not passing it over.

    #87676 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    A couple of oldies mixed up -oops just like us I guess?

    Watered down version of one I submitted to another Forum!

    Our Democracy is now In a terrible state,
    With remain MP’s stealing the Brexit Debate
    Plotters and Remainers and anti U.K. MP’s spoke
    We’ll take over they said and that is no joke

    An unholy alliance of Parliamentarians who want to remain
    And who are treating the electorate with disgraceful distain
    Self opinionated, holier than thou and oh so very very quick
    To ridicule Leavers, Their self importance frankly gets on my wick

    Two PM’s who tried to deliver Brexit have been undermined & that’s very clear
    By Comrade Corbyn with Momentum and then, Hammond, now that really is queer
    ‘Cause Corbyn will destroy our economy & of that there’s absolutey no doubt
    Along with Hammond he wants us to ‘not ‘ leave the EU without a deal , full stop , ‘over and out’

    Encouraged in their false outrage by Bellicose Bercow.
    The plotter in chief is still at it. He really must go
    Just do as we tell you BoJo, you now belong to us
    If you and your 17.4 million supporters don’t like it , well just leave ,& no fuss

    In the chamber Bellicose shouts in his Headmasters voice , order, order
    But not at Labour or the LibDems or those from north of the border
    Look here you lot just respect your ‘God’ yes me, the Speaker
    Cause without my support you’d very much weaker

    BoJo, now looking glum , viewed the melee & said ‘think I’ll resign’
    But later at lunch with a nice glass of red wine
    Can’t let these traitors take over the Country I love, about which I so much care
    Then switches on the TV and that idiot Bercow is still in the Chair

    So BoJo at the next visit will ask ‘hey Belli what on Earth’s going on
    Which will cause Bercow to bang on the Bar with his very small dong
    He’ll shout ‘Be quiet you bathplug’ don’t you know
    We’re now in charge, so leave BoJo just go

    The Brothers and Sisters oh and my lovely wife
    Well. We will cause as much trouble and Strife
    As we can get away with so look out you clown
    You and the Tories , your going to go down

    In History as the guys who broke up the U.K.
    Eh, what’s that BoJo what did you say
    You will go down in history it is the convention
    Whereas I will not even get a mention

    What do you mean you Bullington yob
    That you’ll get a mention but I’ll lose my job
    Never, my buddy Corbyn will me protect
    What’s that Harman ‘no’, ‘cause I’m just not enough Politically Correct

    The sisters don’t like me , i’m the poison dwarf
    Yes said Harriett we don’t want you, so Bercow, just you get yourself orf
    Take that damn woman with you and leave us today
    To Somewhere smelly , noisy & damp – I just pray

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