Could Prime Minister Boris Johnson break up the UK?

This topic contains 553 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by Avatar POPS 29 minutes ago.

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  • #83405 Reply
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    Brydo
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    The Scottish Conservative (and Unionist) party has enjoyed something of resurgence in recent years under the energetic leadership of Ruth Davidson.

    The party’s opponents are convinced that Boris Johnson as prime minister could put an end to all that – and could even put an end to the union between Scotland the rest of the UK.

    It’s true that Mr Johnson could hardly be more different from the down to earth, plain speaking and Remain-voting Ms Davidson. The two are not friends and have vehemently disagreed before.

    Some observers like to speculate that Boris will appear to Scottish voters to be the very epitome of the upper-class English ruling caste that Scots so dislike. But policy may well prove to be more important than personality.

    Mr Johnson appeared to have a weak grasp of the dynamics of devolution when he proposed tax changes that take no account of the fact that income tax rates in Scotland are set by the Scottish Parliament.

    But since then he has promised Scottish Tory MPs he will set up a “union unit” inside No 10 to check every policy. If he knows what he doesn’t know, then maybe he can avoid these gaffes as PM.

    It’s Brexit that may be his undoing, in so many ways. In Remain-voting Scotland, his problem is that the idea of a no deal Brexit is far less palatable than it is in the rest of the UK. The harder the Brexit Boris delivers, the more the Tory party in Scotland could suffer.

    If Prime Minister Johnson [he will officially take on the role this Wednesday] pursues a Brexit policy at odds with what most voters in Scotland would like to see, then it’s possible they may change their minds about whether remaining part of the UK is in their best interests. Some recent polling evidence suggests as many as 60% of voters could vote “yes” to independence if we leave the EU with no deal.

    In the end it may not be the precise details of any Brexit deal that stokes desire for independence – or indeed the character of any individual politician – but a sense that Scotland has different aspirations from the rest of the UK, which can’t be reconciled within the current union.

    If Mr Johnson wants to keep the kingdom united, he will need to take care not fan those flames.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

Viewing 25 replies - 401 through 425 (of 553 total)
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  • #87209 Reply
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    Wigwam
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    Agreed anything is possible. My prediction we leave on 31st October without a deal.  GE in November when voters  find world hasn’t stopped spinning on its axis.  Conservatives re-elected.

    Alternatively we do not leave on 31st October. Electoral pact between Conservatives and Brexit party.  No pact between Libdem’s and Labour.  Election in November Con/Brexit party coalition. We leave without a deal 30th November.  The world continues to spin…

     

     

    #87213 Reply
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    Brydo
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    The Tories will get the most seats that seems certain not sure how many, if any, the Brexit Party will get. Lots of going’s on behind the scene between labour and lib dems to ensure they don’t split the vote and allow the Tories in.

    Likely loss, for Tories, of 10 seats in Scotland, a difficult time for them in London and at least 2 seats lost for the DUP and Plaid Cymru resurgence in Wales, although this might damage Labour more than the Tories. Plus some of those evicted from the party might stand as independent.

    BJ will need to do much better than May did in the last election, plus some.

     

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87214 Reply
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    fwipperie
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    I think extension and GE. BJ wins and Labour does badly particularly in Midlands and North. Lib dems up but nothing like as well as expected. Tories do well in Wales and their vote in Scotland holds up quite well. We leave EU without a deal but lots on mini deals. I expect by 2025 more countries will have left EU.

    #87225 Reply
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    Brydo
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    How would you right wing guy’s feel if BJ gets Mrs May’s through Parliament.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87227 Reply
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    POPS
    Moderator

    Tony Blair says that Brexit should not be decided in a one issue General Election. He says that it would be unrepresentative if the one party was returned with a majority of only 30% plus of the vote.

    If 60% plus of the people voting are disenfranchised there will no resolution and no collective way forward.

    I believe he’s right on this issue.

    If a deal is not agreed by Oct 31st, the next step should be to urgently arrange a second fully informed referendum with just two clear choices …. 1) Leave with No Deal …. 2) revoke article fifty ….  and a requirement that a majority of at least 60% of the voters vote for the winning decision, that then becomes binding and will be implemented immediately with no further parliamentary discussion.

    The Brexit issue will be put to bed by next spring at the latest and we can get on with making the best of the UK’s fully informed decision.

    Politics can be made simpler if personal ambition is taken out of the equation.

    #87234 Reply
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    Wigwam
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    The most personally ambitious politician in my lifetime has been Tony Blair!  A despicable man.

    #87235 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    I would go for that Pops, the only problem being Brexiteers, although they all say they knew they were voting for a hard Brexit, would complain that it’s not fair as those who want to leave with a deal are not represented.

    A vote as you describe would have 70%-30% outcome in favor of remain.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87236 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Brydo, I presume you weren’t addressing me.  My politics are anything but right wing. I just happen to believe in democracy and freedom.

    #87237 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Haha wigwam have you met BJ.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87238 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Wigwam if it looks like a duck and quack’s like a duck its definately a right wing Tory, if the hat fits, wear it lol.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87240 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Clearly Brydo your worldview is distorted by being Scottish.

    #87242 Reply
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    joss
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    Brydo for House speaker 🙂

    Joss
    Current car BMW X2 2.0 Sport sDrive Auto 2019
    Last car Ford Focus Titanium 1.5 TDCI
    Builder of Gaming PC's

    #87243 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    As neutral as Bercow?

    #87249 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    carte blanchecarte blanchecarte blanchecarte blancheWigwam I would like to think my view of the world is shaped by who I am, where I’ve come from and my life experiences not to mention the knowledge I have gained through reading and viewing politics for many years.

    Obviously no one has all the answers, far from it, but we all have points of view and positions we hold dear.

    I am left to centre in my political views, I’ve been very poor and moderately well off, but the bulk of my views and positions were formed during my early years when I was “holes in my one pair of shoes” poor.

    So when Tory Toffs like BJ, and his cohort’s gain power I am immediately sceptical and concerned for those who are poor and vulnerable. This of course includes many disabled people and the less well off. That is why I find it difficult to understand why BJ would get Carte blanche from anyone on this forum.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87250 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Don’t know what happened to my above post but please ignore the first four Carte blanche lol.

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87252 Reply
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    Magnum Mike
    Participant

    Just seen Boris sitting in a classroom on bbc news at 6pm what a gorgeous blonde teacher

    I like Magnums....

    #87262 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    Brydo, you don’t know my background or what formed my worldview to make the assumptions you do about me.  I trust very few politicians and certainly not Johnson who I have never met. I have however met two Labour party shadow ministers in the last two months which may suggest the circles in which I mix.  Who I support in politics at the moment depends on whether I believe they will get us out of the clutches of the EU which is not a left wing or right wing position.

    #87265 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    Wigwam, like you, I have met a number of Politicians, one of whom I still see quite often at different functions ( we went to the same finishing school in Camberley – at different times however ) and I met quite a number (from the three main parties) at the H of C at meetings & lunch several times ( back in the late 70’s /early 80’s ) and from those meetings , frankly, I came to the conclusion that none of them can be trusted – a pretty jaundiced view I accept, but one that has stayed with me, and recent events prove my point of view I think.

    I have no affiliation to any political party, but lean more towards the right, and genuinely and solidly feel that democracy is far more important than any political party, hence my support ‘currently’ for BoJo, who is clearly trying to deliver the democratic decision of the referendum, whereas other parties are hell bent on denying democracy and overturning the result!

    They ignore the ‘Great unwashed ‘ as they seemingly think of the electorate, at their peril, and a new poll by ComRes has found that more than half of British adults , some 54%, believe the result of the 2016 referendum should be respected, and Brexit delivered –

    Just 25 per cent disagreed and 21 per cent didn’t know and politicians in denial will not want to know this, but of those who voted Remain in 2016, more than a third (35 per cent) said they now wanted Brexit delivered.

    There is no doubt that Brydo is correct in that , like in his experience , political opinion is quite often formed by family, environment etc, but propaganda plays a huge part also ie myth, lies & spin.

    But propaganda against parties and policies works both ways, and people who vote Tory, are not all wealthy child molesters/ eaters as the left would like everyone to believe – it is just as insulting to them to be classed as people who are against the disabled etc., as it is for genuine Labour supporters to be classed as Marxists, or similarly just as insulting and wrong as saying that all Muslims should be classed as terrorists

    #87271 Reply
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    Magnum Mike
    Participant

    Brydo I thought Wigwams reply to you was a bit harsh if it’s any comfort I mix in crop circles and my background is dining kitchen lounge large garden looking on to open fields

    I like Magnums....

    #87274 Reply
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    fwipperie
    Participant

    Some good news, we have some dry very warm weather , ideal for magnums and perhaps the sun will get the politicians talking?

    #87285 Reply
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    Brydo
    Participant

    Boris Johnson’s suspension of UK Parliament is unlawful, judges at Scotland’s highest civil court rule

    The only person who got all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

    #87287 Reply
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    Mike 700
    Participant

    This is an absolute pantomime of course – Parliament is superior to any court in the land ie Parliamentary Sovereignty, and the only time that a court can override Parliament is if there is a change to the constitution, however, there is no written constitution in the U.K., so this does not apply!

    This nonsense gives cart blanche to any individual, or groups of individuals the right to challenge any legislation or decision taken by Parliament, or the Government or ‘The Monarchy’ – clearly non workable and anarchistic!

    #87292 Reply
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    fwipperie
    Participant

    All this “nonsense” is playing into the hands of Farage and BJ as the people will see their 2016 referendum vote was meaningless. And whatever happens, revocation of A50, when the next election comes and we have a “brexit” majority we shall trigger A50 again. My message to “remoaners” is this issue will never go away if you try and overturn the will of the UK public. Time for a coffee!! or two?

     

    #87293 Reply
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    POPS
    Moderator

    I voted remain, but I would support a well drafted deal to leave the EU.

    #87296 Reply
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    Wigwam
    Participant

    POPS, I agree that a well drafted deal would be the best solution to the impass we find ourselves in. But the EU will never agree a deal which does not a) attempt to punish the UK for leaving and b) attempt to dissuade other members from following our course.  That is the reality of the EU.  It cannot be seen to allow dissent from the Project’s objectives.

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