BEV purchasing process, including charger install.

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #256419
    MFillingham
    Participant

      I’m going to keep track of all that goes on in the processes after deciding what car I’m going for and include the timescales, just in case they help anyone.  I am very aware that everyone gets different responses and mine may well be a straight forward charger install.

       

      So, the car.  I’ve opted for the Hyundai Ioniq 5 Namsan Edition RWD.  The reason for this one over a better priced Ultimate plus Tech Pack was simple availability, this one was in the showroom, looking at what was docked, there were a few Ultimates with Tech Pack but they all included the Heat Pump (an additional £950 that I’d not see again) Once you’ve added the heat pump price, it’s not a huge jump to get to the Namsan Edition and with the Pano roof  it is more than worth the extra money.  That’s booked for delivery 1st Feb. Car ordered 16th January.

       

      Day after ordering everything was approved by Motability.

      Same day I had an email from Ohme asking me to complete a survey.  It’s a simple task, for someone.  There’s a mass of questions about your house, where you want the install, your electricity supply and usage, ownership/landlord, permissions.  Then they ask you for a bunch of photos, to give them credit, they give you pictures of what you’re aiming the camera (phone) at, so you should be able to get the pictures they want.  Then you’re asked to draw your house, with measurements of where the cable will go (yes, you’re making that decision, not an expert).  So, I’ve done all this and sent it off.  Within an hour I get a phone call, and they leave a voice mail, a silent one.  I get that notification after they’ve closed, so I’ll see if they try again the following day.  Nope.

       

      I phone them the following week, to see what they wanted, turns out it was permission from the landlord, no problem, this was anticipated and I already had written permission, so I forwarded that email to them.

      Next day they decline my install, I don’t have a drive, despite my picture showing a drive and the photographs showing said concreted driveway.  Next morning I’m taking daylight photos of the drive (with a car in it) from the house perspective and from across the street, showing both the open gates and the dropped curb.

      Later that day they agree all is in order and they’ve forwarded the install details to my local installer, who will contact me.  I’m now less than one week from collecting the new car, so I’m guessing there’s going to be a period of no charger at home but I can live with that.

       

      So far, it’s not been particularly painful but also not been a great process.  I’m an intelligent person with experience in electrical installation (I trained as an electrician briefly when younger and at least know one end of a screwdriver from the other), I’ve the technical capability to take these pictures and can understand what’s going on.  However, I still needed several follow up calls and messages to get everything they wanted.  Given this is for disabled people, including those with limited mental capacity, there’s going to be conversations with carers/family members, people trying to work out what they’re doing and I can see a lot of problems.

       

      I’ll add in future developments as we progress, including pictures of the car next week.

      I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
      I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

      Mark

    Viewing 25 replies - 51 through 75 (of 182 total)
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    • #257087
      kezo
      Participant

        This provides some information rather than just the form required by the DNO for EVCP’s & HP’s since 2021 – This is what “you supposedly” would have filled in

        https://www.energynetworks.org/assets/images/Resource%20library/Single-Electric-Vehicle-Charge-Point-and-Heat-Pump-Installation-Application-Form.docx?1706871993

         

         

         

        #257094
        Avatar photoPOPS
        Moderator

          Absolutely stunning Mark. Thanks for the pics.

          #257112
          MFillingham
          Participant

            DNO is National Grid.  They accepted the number you gave me and now want to check the fuse is up to the new requirement.

             

            I must admit I really want to go on a decent drive at night, somewhere dark so I can appreciate the lighting.

            Thanks @POPS it’s a great car, I need to pinch myself every time I get in.

            I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
            I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

            Mark

            #257120
            Tgreen
            Spectator

              The issue, is that we are making a change to EV’s and het pumps in order to meet green targets which is great,  however there has been zero advance planning and no proactive programs in place to upgrade our aging infrastructure.

              there should he no dwelling without a 100amp fuse, 3 phase should be compulsory on new builds and refurbs with cost incentives for owners.

              There is the possibility that someone through no fault of their own could have a max 60/80amp and they EV charger refused or limited to 3.6kWh which would mean charging could be a real pain at home.

               

              Its really the public thats being let down.

               

              #257121
              Tgreen
              Spectator

                You DNO should assess the supply capacity upon receiving the completed form within a maximum of 10 days.

                DNO is National Grid. They accepted the number you gave me and now want to check the fuse is up to the new requirement. I must admit I really want to go on a decent drive at night, somewhere dark so I can appreciate the lighting.

                 

                Be careful when driving at night, the Ioniq5 despite having fancy pixel headlights, they have been shown to be very poor on dark roads.

                 

                 

                #257122
                MFillingham
                Participant

                  The issue, is that we are making a change to EV’s and het pumps in order to meet green targets which is great, however there has been zero advance planning and no proactive programs in place to upgrade our aging infrastructure. there should he no dwelling without a 100amp fuse, 3 phase should be compulsory on new builds and refurbs with cost incentives for owners. There is the possibility that someone through no fault of their own could have a max 60/80amp and they EV charger refused or limited to 3.6kWh which would mean charging could be a real pain at home. Its really the public thats being let down.

                   

                  I kind of agree, as we move away from gas as a heating fuel that is going to increase the burden on both the house’s electric supply but also the entire network all the way back to the higher voltage transformers.  If a developer has to install 3 phase for 25 properties, with solar panels on the roof and parking for charging (no public walkways between house and car), the draw on the local power supply will increase and thus the supply for the whole town would increase.  Then there’s the requirement to add in a rapid or two for facilities (doctors, shops and pubs).

                  All this requires a better National Grid and access to the renewable generation that is either built and not connected or planned but waiting connection solutions.

                  However, none of that is a direct issue for Motability or its customers.  Feed to the house is a simple upgrade as long as there’s a decent connection back up the chain.

                  I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                  I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                  Mark

                  #257127
                  kezo
                  Participant

                    You are quite right Western Power got swallowed up by the national grid a couple of years ago.

                    DNO’s work in strange ways – they may send someone out check, who may upgrade the cut-out, or they could send another bod out another day! Either way you your first visit should be within 10 days, as said previous.

                    National grid, will only upgrade the cut-out fuse to a maximum of 80A in 99&% of cases, which they aren’t the only ones starting to do this (Northern Power is another)

                    A CT clamp will be installed with the charger, this will monitor and reduce load to the charger if necessary. Due Diversity being a factor with electrical installations, the chances of everthing in the house being on at the same, whils’t charging, would be highly unlikely night or day, the charger will perform as required anyway.

                    If your existing cut-out is 100A, it will be left.

                    Whether or not they will upgrade you to split or three phase, is up to them on the day. It’s  unlikely.

                     

                     

                     

                     

                    #257132
                    kezo
                    Participant

                      There is the possibility that someone through no fault of their own could have a max 60/80amp and they EV charger refused or limited to 3.6kWh which would mean charging could be a real pain at home.

                      The DNO will unlikely refuse the installation of a charge point providing the correct proceedures are followed.

                      DNO’s are likely to standardise domestic one phase properties to 80A. Some have already implemented this.

                      Should your DNO believe you maximum demand will be 20kVA (rounded) or over, the DNO will supply either split or three phase. (15kVA rounded is a standard domestic supply)

                      Mark’s maximum demand is only 12A above 80A, he is unlikely to have a shower (electric) during early hours, His demand during this time is around 57A well below 80A. Diversity plays a big part. The use of a CT clamp acts as a safety measure incase Mark turns eveything in his house on at the same time.

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      #257152
                      Tgreen
                      Spectator

                        There is the possibility that someone through no fault of their own could have a max 60/80amp and they EV charger refused or limited to 3.6kWh which would mean charging could be a real pain at home.

                        The DNO will unlikely refuse the installation of a charge point providing the correct proceedures are followed. DNO’s are likely to standardise domestic one phase properties to 80A. Some have already implemented this. Should your DNO believe you maximum demand will be 20kVA (rounded) or over, the DNO will supply either split or three phase. (15kVA rounded is a standard domestic supply) Mark’s maximum demand is only 12A above 80A, he is unlikely to have a shower (electric) during early hours, His demand during this time is around 57A well below 80A. Diversity plays a big part. The use of a CT clamp acts as a safety measure incase Mark turns eveything in his house on at the same time.

                         

                         

                        DNO will supply either split or three phase

                        Unfortunately this wont be supplied FOC

                        #257161
                        Ioniq
                        Participant

                          @tgreen

                          DNO will supply either split or three phase Unfortunately this wont be supplied FOC[/quote]

                          Yes they do.

                          I just had polyphase or 3 phase installed by my DNO when unlooping our supply.

                          It did not cost anything.

                           

                           

                          #257176
                          MickC
                          Participant

                            @MFillingham during installation did you see how they routed the power cable from the meter box to the consumer unit.

                            I’m interested to know how they get the cable from one to the other…..do they go thru the cavity and along the cavity following the path of existing cables.


                            @kezo
                            might know.

                            #257178
                            MFillingham
                            Participant

                              @MickC I’ll let you know when the install finally happens.  Current estimate is w/c 26th Feb.

                              I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                              I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                              Mark

                              #257180
                              kezo
                              Participant

                                @MFillingham during installation did you see how they routed the power cable from the meter box to the consumer unit. I’m interested to know how they get the cable from one to the other…..do they go thru the cavity and along the cavity following the path of existing cables. @kezo might know.

                                Installation work for the charger is done from your meter box – your consumer unit is completely seperate and not touched.

                                The Henley block (black box to the right) splits the tails coming from the meter to consumer unit. Another set is then connected to supply a small consumer unit (situated just outside your meter box) that will supply your charger. The little black box with the red & black wires coming out is the CT clamp, that will monitor your homes total load.

                                As for kezo might know he does lol.


                                @Tgreen
                                what assumption have you come to, that it wont be FOC?

                                If it was chargeable, the DNO would charge for cut-out changes!

                                Minor or street works for a cutomers installation of first EVCP or HP is not chargeable.

                                #257182
                                MickC
                                Participant

                                  @MFillingham during installation did you see how they routed the power cable from the meter box to the consumer unit. I’m interested to know how they get the cable from one to the other…..do they go thru the cavity and along the cavity following the path of existing cables. @kezo might know.

                                  Installation work for the charger is done from your meter box – your consumer unit is completely seperate and not touched. The Henley block (black box to the right) splits the tails coming from the meter to consumer unit. Another set is then connected to supply a small consumer unit (situated just outside your meter box) that will supply your charger. The little black box with the red & black wires coming out is the CT clamp, that will monitor your homes total load. As for kezo might know he does lol. @Tgreen what assumption have you come to, that it wont be FOC? If it was chargeable, the DNO would charge for cut-out changes! Minor or street works for a cutomers installation of first EVCP or HP is not chargeable.

                                   

                                  I watched this yesterday now i’m confused,he’s on about freeways in the consumer unit.

                                  #257246
                                  kezo
                                  Participant

                                    @MickC

                                    Your are going to not only run yourself ragged but, confuse yourself at the same time?

                                    There are many reasons you would not come off the RCD protected side or unprotected side of a conumer unit, due to the RCD type allready installed, MCB suitability and whether you can match one to the board etc etc.

                                    Most installers I know and that includes myself, typically stay away from the main house consumer unit and install a dedicated CU for the charger. The reg’s don’t say you can’t come off the main house CU but, you can run into inherent problems doing so. It is therfore preferable and a better job done overall better to install a dedicated CU for the charger and keep things seperate. You will find your Ohme installer will also adopt this method.

                                    You will find this video runs over somemore of the issues faced connecting the charger to the main house CU. (Notice its a new home and same Zappi charger)

                                    “The guy in the video you posted also wrongly assumed, that the black label on the side of the cut-out fuse denoted a 100A fuse is fitted. The black label denotes the the actual carrier rating, in a similar way a 13A plug is only rated at 13A but might have a 5A fuse inside. If cut-out carrier didn’t have the label on front stating the size he wouldn’t know and must assume its 60A fitted!”

                                    Sec 722 of the regs, requires a RCD protects an EV charger and shall discount all live conductors, both live and neutral.

                                    Most charger’s today including Ohme, come with whats known as a Residual Direct Current Detecting Device (RDC-DD). This is often built within the charger PCB, rather than an actual physical device. Its purpose is to monitor and disconnect if any DC issues arise on the AC side, which could interfer with the operation of the RCD.

                                    If the charger does not have any form of RDC-DD a Type B RCD would be installed to supply the charger upstream of the charger. If the charger has RDC-DD protection a main switch can be used – However many I know inc myself will install a Type A RCD upstream of the charger, they only cost a few quid and add an additional elemant of safety, so its daft not to, however this might be pushing it for Motability installers, given MO would have  wanted a charger plus installation for pittance!

                                    Type A and B RCD’s won’t affect DC up up to 6mA and are the most used in domestic installations.

                                    Surge Protection devices (SPD) are an important factor in amendant 2 of the regs and will go into them  in another post, as I’m not sure if installers are automatically opting MO customers out without asking!

                                    Hope this helps 🙂

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    #257260
                                    MickC
                                    Participant

                                      @kezo definately helps and un confuses me.

                                       

                                      Where does the “dedicated CU” get placed ? in the meter box ? is there enough room in my meter box.?

                                       

                                      Ive taken a pic of my meter box and ive noticed that i too have a black label on the side of the fuse which says 100 i also have a white sticker that says 80,should i contact DNO and ask them to come and check ?

                                       

                                      #257261
                                      kezo
                                      Participant

                                        @MickC

                                        Its highly likely your cut-out is 80A, especially as yours has a stcker on saying so. 80A is sufficient to run a charger and your house in most cases, plus a CT clamp will be installed at the time your charger is.

                                        I would leave Ohme or whoever they use, to notify the relevant bodies after “you” have done the survey they request.

                                        The CU will sit adjacant to your meter box. Have a look on the Kerbocharge thread where @Phaedra shows where the CU sits next to the box

                                        What rating MCB’s do you have in your house consumer unit and I’ll check you maximum demand.

                                        #257263
                                        MickC
                                        Participant

                                          @kezo here is a pic of the label on the consumer unit.

                                          #257275
                                          kezo
                                          Participant

                                            @kezo here is a pic of the label on the consumer unit.

                                            MD incl charger 101.6A – (based on 100% of the largest +40% of the rest of MCB’s) BS7671 onsite guide.

                                            However as described in a previous thread this is more of a guide figure and your actual MD will be lower than this and below 100A. i.e if I was to take the last 4 6A MCB’s and added diversity it would be 15.84A so straight away your under 100A and so on.

                                            Is your home a HA or LA and who is your DNO (area you live if you dont know)

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            #257276
                                            MickC
                                            Participant

                                              @kezo its Housing Association.

                                               

                                              Network Operator > Northern Powergrid, North East.

                                              #257323
                                              MFillingham
                                              Participant

                                                @kezo there’s a lot of information you got stored away that could really help all the future EV customers, is it worth you doing a thread setting down as much general info as possible?  It might save you a repeat or two..

                                                I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                                                I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                                                Mark

                                                #257332
                                                kezo
                                                Participant

                                                  @kezo there’s a lot of information you got stored away that could really help all the future EV customers, is it worth you doing a thread setting down as much general info as possible? It might save you a repeat or two..

                                                  Must admit something I have thought of but, stopped short of doing, for various reasons such as – The information could become out of date as the regs change. Then you have those that are negative, contradict what you say, yet haven’t got a clue. The information should flow, one thing I wanted for your thread and rightfully so others want to ask questions, it would end up like the “got a question thread” if one ask questions it runs smooth if two or more ask questions, you loose track where you are…. The only way to do it, would be an information thread only?

                                                  I was thinking last night how your thread has gone. With @MickC permission, I was thinking of moving all Q&A over to “HA EV charger permission thread” starting from #257178. It would make it easier for me to keep track of and provide individuality. @POPS if you can please.

                                                  Remove negativity and cotradictions again @POPS 🙂

                                                   

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  #257341
                                                  kezo
                                                  Participant

                                                    Mark, did you go for a run out yesterday?

                                                    #257347
                                                    MFillingham
                                                    Participant

                                                      Mark, did you go for a run out yesterday?

                                                      Not of any great length, I did about 30 mile round trip which was pleasant enough.  We’re off to Southampton in a few weeks, that’ll show me how it performs.

                                                      I’ve had the car in eco since I got it, which was sprightly enough around town but switched that to normal and it found its legs.  I’m going to have to wait for some country roads before hitting sport mode as I’ll lose my licence around here with all the 20mph limits.

                                                      I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                                                      I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                                                      Mark

                                                      #257353
                                                      MFillingham
                                                      Participant

                                                        Today I swapped number plates.  The new all online process is stupidly easy.  You need your v7** form for the registration, everything else is online.

                                                        Click the link from your Motability account having copied the V5c reference and follow the instructions. All done in 5 minutes flat, no need for Motability or DVLA to be open although the online system has ‘opening hours’.

                                                        New plates are now on and legal. ?

                                                        I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                                                        I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                                                        Mark

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