BEV purchasing process, including charger install.

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    Topic
  • #256419
    MFillingham
    Participant

      I’m going to keep track of all that goes on in the processes after deciding what car I’m going for and include the timescales, just in case they help anyone.  I am very aware that everyone gets different responses and mine may well be a straight forward charger install.

       

      So, the car.  I’ve opted for the Hyundai Ioniq 5 Namsan Edition RWD.  The reason for this one over a better priced Ultimate plus Tech Pack was simple availability, this one was in the showroom, looking at what was docked, there were a few Ultimates with Tech Pack but they all included the Heat Pump (an additional £950 that I’d not see again) Once you’ve added the heat pump price, it’s not a huge jump to get to the Namsan Edition and with the Pano roof  it is more than worth the extra money.  That’s booked for delivery 1st Feb. Car ordered 16th January.

       

      Day after ordering everything was approved by Motability.

      Same day I had an email from Ohme asking me to complete a survey.  It’s a simple task, for someone.  There’s a mass of questions about your house, where you want the install, your electricity supply and usage, ownership/landlord, permissions.  Then they ask you for a bunch of photos, to give them credit, they give you pictures of what you’re aiming the camera (phone) at, so you should be able to get the pictures they want.  Then you’re asked to draw your house, with measurements of where the cable will go (yes, you’re making that decision, not an expert).  So, I’ve done all this and sent it off.  Within an hour I get a phone call, and they leave a voice mail, a silent one.  I get that notification after they’ve closed, so I’ll see if they try again the following day.  Nope.

       

      I phone them the following week, to see what they wanted, turns out it was permission from the landlord, no problem, this was anticipated and I already had written permission, so I forwarded that email to them.

      Next day they decline my install, I don’t have a drive, despite my picture showing a drive and the photographs showing said concreted driveway.  Next morning I’m taking daylight photos of the drive (with a car in it) from the house perspective and from across the street, showing both the open gates and the dropped curb.

      Later that day they agree all is in order and they’ve forwarded the install details to my local installer, who will contact me.  I’m now less than one week from collecting the new car, so I’m guessing there’s going to be a period of no charger at home but I can live with that.

       

      So far, it’s not been particularly painful but also not been a great process.  I’m an intelligent person with experience in electrical installation (I trained as an electrician briefly when younger and at least know one end of a screwdriver from the other), I’ve the technical capability to take these pictures and can understand what’s going on.  However, I still needed several follow up calls and messages to get everything they wanted.  Given this is for disabled people, including those with limited mental capacity, there’s going to be conversations with carers/family members, people trying to work out what they’re doing and I can see a lot of problems.

       

      I’ll add in future developments as we progress, including pictures of the car next week.

      I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
      I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

      Mark

    Viewing 25 replies - 26 through 50 (of 182 total)
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    • #256813
      kezo
      Participant

        Thanks buddy. I took the easy option and asked the DNO to arrange a visit so they can look for themselves. I was busy trying to work it all out when Virtus called and they said the definitive solution was to get them to visit. They have a rough idea of when they’re coming to install, w/c26th Feb. So I have time to get that all organised.

        It would be interesting and appreciated if you worked out or let me know the ratings of MCB’s in the consumer unit, to accertain what your current maximum demand is an what it will be with a charger connected, applying diversity to BS7671 compared with the DNO’s ADMD calc will yield different results with charger installed (105A) due to how they calculate supply. Without charger it works out roughly same as my calc, 75.2A. Thats on my imaginary consumer unit I gave as example.

        Obviously you spoke to Virtue today, what did they say about where they got 184.5A from, as that is well within 3 phase territory of a small to mid size commercial unit not your average 3/4 bed house ?

         

        • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by kezo.
        #256891
        MFillingham
        Participant

          Here’s what I have:

          Cooker 32A

          Water 16A

          Sockets (Down stairs) 32

          Lights (downstairs) 6

          Sockets (Upstairs) 16

          Lights (Upstairs) 6

          Shower 40

           

          Total 158 + Charger 32 = 190 (still not 184.5)

          So, going by your formulae –

          1 = 40

          2 = 190

          3 = 76

           

          1+3 = 116

           

          That still seems rather large.  I’ve no idea why the shower needs 40A again, that seems rather large to my mind.

           


          @kezo
          , could you please have a look and verify what I’ve done.  I’m trying to upload a picture of the MCB but it’s not working, @wmcforum – can you help?

           

          I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
          I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

          Mark

          #256894
          kezo
          Participant

            Do you know what kW your shower is?

            (1) 40A set aside as 100%

            (2) Add the remainder together 32+32 +16+16+6+6  = 108

            (3) 40% of 108 =(40×114/100) = 43.2

            (4) 40+43.2 = 83.2kW current maximum demand

             

            (2) 108+32 for charger =140

            (3) 40% of 140 = (40×146/100) = 56

            (4) 40+56 = 96kW new maximum demand with EV charger

            Cut-out fuse upgrade to 100A BS7671

             

            DNO calculation

            Results
            Total Estimated Maximum Demand Load per Customer 21.25 kVA
            Total Amps 92.4 Maximum Demand
            Total estimated maximum demand load  21.25 kVA
            Total estimated load diversified for 1 customer(s) (This is the load we will use when we are designing the network)10 kVA

            DN) may t0 downrate further on the day.

             

             

             

            • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by kezo.
            • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by kezo.
            #256896
            kezo
            Participant

              What is the age of your property?

              Depending on your DNO? and the max cut-out they are willing to install (some only allow 80A, you could end up with split phase or 3 phase or they find its O.K to derate further from above DNO calc after visiting you could end up with 80A, all depends.

              • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by kezo.
              • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by kezo.
              #256910
              MFillingham
              Participant

                Thanks @kezo

                DNO kindly declined my invite to visit, apparently it’s an internal issue. ??‍♂️

                 

                Shower is 8.5kW.

                I’ll tell the DNO it’s 92.5 and see what they say.  That’s practically half of what Ohme provided to the DNO.

                I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                Mark

                #256917
                kezo
                Participant

                  Mark

                  I would be getting onto Virtue and asking them how they managed to come to 184.5A for a 3/4? bed domestic dwelling. I wouldn’t get involved just incase

                  I’ll write you something up to email but, my guess is they are clowns for getting the basics wrong or as I imagine mixed up figures with another job.

                  Equally I don’t like the fact they have said it is you a layman so to speak who has done the calculations as far as the DNO are aware. This IMO needs reporting to motability in writing at some point!

                   

                  #256918
                  MFillingham
                  Participant

                    I asked Virtus yesterday and they didn’t recognise it either, she went through her files and couldn’t see a number in the required field.

                    My guess is that it could only come from Ohme based on the image of the MCB I sent to them but still can’t find a way to get to such a ridiculous number.

                    It’s new car day tomorrow, I’ll see if I can get pictures uploaded.

                    I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                    I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                    Mark

                    #256924
                    kezo
                    Participant

                      I asked Virtus yesterday and they didn’t recognise it either, she went through her files and couldn’t see a number in the required field. My guess is that it could only come from Ohme based on the image of the MCB I sent to them but still can’t find a way to get to such a ridiculous number. It’s new car day tomorrow, I’ll see if I can get pictures uploaded.

                      Tell the DNO you have had an ADMD (after diversity maximum demand) done to include the charge point 92.4 Amps (Both calculations are above 90A so it doesnt matter which one you use)

                      Its difficult creating sh!t before the charger is installed because you need it fitting without delay which I understand. However I would definately complain to Motability in writing after, because its incompetance somewhere and could have prevented you having a charger fitted if the DNO didn’t agree. Luckily they questioned it with you, which they don’t always do!

                      It would be interesting to ask Virtue is Ohme contracted them directly or whether it was through ProEV.

                      Hopefully you will understand why I totally disagree with the home owner doing a survey on behalf of someone you hope would at least put the correct figures into the “guess o meter calculator” at the start.

                      Yes, hope everything goes well tomorrow  and please do share some pictures of inside and out, as never seen a Namsam 🙂

                       

                      #257005
                      MFillingham
                      Participant

                        New car day!!!  I honestly was beginning to wonder if this was ever going to happen.

                        Many thanks to George at Hawkins Blackwater who, despite needing a huge deposit, has been fantastic throughout the process, for all the year it’s taken.

                        I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                        I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                        Mark

                        #257006
                        MFillingham
                        Participant

                          Driver's side 'mirror'

                           

                          I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                          I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                          Mark

                          #257014
                          kezo
                          Participant

                            Someone graffritied over where the number plate should be ??

                            Looks very nice mate 🙂

                            How you finding the mirrors?

                            #257019
                            Avatar photoPOPS
                            Moderator

                              What a stunner Mark. You must be very happy. I would love to see a pic of the ambient lighting at night. I bet it will look amazing. Cheers.

                              #257022
                              kezo
                              Participant

                                @POPS where are you in the world of cars atm?

                                #257025
                                Avatar photoPOPS
                                Moderator

                                  kezo, I’m waiting patiently. It would take a vehicle that ticked all my boxes to return me to “ordering” mode.

                                  One thing that has made me think hard (with my sensible head on, lol) is the fact that I’ve only driven a total of 150 miles since mid December. The financial equation of miles to pounds isn’t looking too attractive at the moment.

                                  Mark, I have many happy memories of St Ives Bay and the Godrevy Light. Great pic.

                                  #257028
                                  MFillingham
                                  Participant

                                    Someone graffritied over where the number plate should be ?? Looks very nice mate ? How you finding the mirrors?

                                     

                                    Had it 5 minutes and some jealous muppet has scribbled all over the numbers, incredible.

                                     

                                    The mirrors are particularly easy to get on with, there’s been a couple of times I’ve looked and seen the camera but the screens are perfectly clear and have lines for distance both when you’re indicating in that direction and reversing.

                                     

                                     

                                    What a stunner Mark. You must be very happy. I would love to see a pic of the ambient lighting at night. I bet it will look amazing. Cheers.

                                     

                                    I’ll wait until it’s dark enough and I’ll take some more pictures.  Ambient lighting is currently purple as it’s my daughter’s favourite colour.

                                     

                                    kezo, I’m waiting patiently. It would take a vehicle that ticked all my boxes to return me to “ordering” mode. One thing that has made me think hard (with my sensible head on, lol) is the fact that I’ve only driven a total of 150 miles since mid December. The financial equation of miles to pounds isn’t looking too attractive at the moment. Mark, I have many happy memories of St Ives Bay and the Godrevy Light. Great pic.

                                     

                                    I couldn’t resist the back lane jaunt to Godrevy and setting up a better shot than I’d get at home.  What’s surprising is the changes in colours the car manages, in the standard drab grey light the car is grey, in direct sunlight it shines a brilliant green and when it’s bright, there’s a range of greens between where the sun is reflecting directly and the shaded greeny-grey.

                                     

                                    So far it’s too early to do anything more than play with buttons and try hunting through complex menus but I tried the sat nav coming back from the supermarket to see how it works and it completely ignored a major crossroads and tried to send me the longest possible route.  I may be sticking with my usual ones and just setting charger destinations without directions so the car can precondition it’s battery on longer journeys.

                                    I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                                    I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                                    Mark

                                    #257037
                                    kezo
                                    Participant

                                      The satnav should give you a choice of different routes to click on before it starts guidance. Try a different route or check the map version number incase there is a later version.

                                      Its pretty good in my Tucson and reminds me of my Tomtom live, where it brings up part screen to show you which lane to be in on multi lane roads.

                                      #257041
                                      MFillingham
                                      Participant

                                        @kezo,  I’ve a OTA update underway, so hopefully that’s new maps.  My concern was that the crossroad missed has been there for decades, it’s not a map issue in terms of new roads, it just completely missed it in the directions.

                                         

                                        The HUD directions were spot on, it’d count down the yards to the junction and then there’s both the future arrow (turn right in x yds) and a more direct arrow showing you where you’re going on the road ahead.  No need to look at the map to see what it’s thinking.

                                        I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                                        I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                                        Mark

                                        #257043
                                        kezo
                                        Participant

                                          @kezo,  I’ve a OTA update underway, so hopefully that’s new maps.  My concern was that the crossroad missed has been there for decades, it’s not a map issue in terms of new roads, it just completely missed it in the directions.

                                          Posch! mine isn’t OTA.

                                          Quicky- First impressions over the MG and did you get round to selling it 🙂

                                          #257044
                                          MFillingham
                                          Participant

                                            Night and day over the MG.  Seats are a step up, ride quality is a different class, tech is 4 years further on and shows the 2 screens are on a different level, software is quicker and more stable, start up is a fraction of the time.

                                            The biggest difference is space.  The car is a few cm longer and wider but less tall, however inside feels like it’s half as much again.  I’ve more boot space, more space in the back seats and more room in the front seats to spread out.   I honestly feel it’s like comparing original and new Minis, with the size ranges.

                                            I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                                            I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                                            Mark

                                            #257072
                                            MFillingham
                                            Participant

                                              Having had the DNO require me to find an electrician to calculate the total demand for our house, they’re now sending a technician (time and date unknown) to check the fuse.   You really can’t make this up!  We want people to have EVs, we want them to be able to charge at home because it’s cheaper for them and doesn’t require providing very high draw chargers to be pinned everywhere but what we’ll do is allow every company involved to make life as awkward as possible. Then you look at the fact this is a Motability funded install, so designed for disabled people.  I know we’re not all the same but you must be prepared that the disable person will not have a clear understanding of the electrical requirements for home and charging, will not have undergone years of electrical training to suitably and safely understand what all these terms and requirements are and, most importantly, may not even be able to point a camera at the right thing and hold it steady enough to take a decent picture.

                                               

                                              There has to be a better process, not necessarily a cheaper one but one that gets everything right first time.  That process could well look like Motability finding a network of electricians all over the country who can visit homes locally and perform these surveys.  That information can then be forwarded to the charger provider of the day who can then take the install back to that local installer if they don’t have a preferred one close.  That local electrician can charge a flat rate for an hour’s survey (and that hour will be much better used over me, you or someone else hunting through the house and taking dodgy photos of the electric cabinet) and we’ll know full well what needs doing to get the charger installed.  The charger provider simply posts the chargers out, which they do anyway, and then push the work back to either their local installer OR the electrician who did the survey so that we’re no dealing with a company who is 200 miles away or more and can only visit when they have a team in that rough vicinity which could well be months away.  That give the DNO time to do a standard tail/fuse upgrade if required and mean that the customer isn’t required to do something that could well cause mental and physical wellness issues.   Just read the number of threads on here where getting an install done is a properly painful experience and something someone in between Motability and the installer could easily have dealt with ensuring the information provided is correct first time, the questions can be phrased more technically, understood and answered correctly and that better flow of information can result in improved, quicker and more positive outcomes for the customer AND Motability.  I wonder just how many BEVs have been ordered and returned/cancelled because the charger install has been declined causing a cost to Motability in losses on a very new vehicle?

                                              I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                                              I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                                              Mark

                                              #257039
                                              MFillingham
                                              Participant

                                                Some images in the dark.

                                                and just for @POPS

                                                Front seats would probably look better if there wasn’t a street light over the front of the car…

                                                I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                                                I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                                                Mark

                                                #257078
                                                kezo
                                                Participant

                                                  Having had the DNO require me to find an electrician to calculate the total demand for our house, they’re now sending a technician (time and date unknown) to check the fuse.

                                                  Did the DNO (Western Power?) except the demand calculation I gave  and are now coming out to check the cut-out fuse rating (size) or do they require you to get a spark in? If so I’m happy to put in writing on headed paper as previously said?

                                                  There are two working models Motability could/should  adopt

                                                  (1) Motability provide its customers an amount of money payed into their bank account. The customer then arranges to have an install done.

                                                  This may not work to the customers benifit due to how Motability barter to get the cheapes’t prices possible, may/will leave the customer out of pocket. From memory Motability allow £700. However this may work for those in rented accomondation, if the landlord were to agree on applying for the £350 grant and you the customer pay the £700.

                                                  (2) Perhaps the best way is how I do it along with companies up and down the country. The installation company therefore acts as the single point of contact throughout which includes

                                                  The installer/company visits the house and carries out a full survey – Check condition of existing electrical equipment – Maximum demad calculation – who then decides whether it is safe to connect and notify or DNO must be notified prior to install – carry out all necessary measurements to facilate the installation – Explain and discuss with the customer any questions they may have – All required paper to DNO is filled out from the installers perspective and not the customers, suggesting they are the ones that have done the demand calculations, when they haven’t! Everything runs smoothly-everyones happy!

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  #257079
                                                  kezo
                                                  Participant

                                                    Ambiant lighing looks nice when its dark 🙂

                                                    #257080
                                                    MFillingham
                                                    Participant

                                                      DNO is National Grid.  They accepted the number you gave me and now want to check the fuse is up to the new requirement.

                                                       

                                                      I must admit I really want to go on a decent drive at night, somewhere dark so I can appreciate the lighting.

                                                      I'm Autistic, if I say something you find offensive, please let me know, I can guarantee it was unintentional.
                                                      I'll try to give my honest opinion but am always open to learning.

                                                      Mark

                                                      #257084
                                                      kezo
                                                      Participant

                                                        You DNO should assess the supply capacity upon receiving the completed form within a maximum of 10 days.

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