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Brilliant piece, Wigwam. Always been intrigued by the Wankel rotary but knew very little. Always seemed like an original piece of engineering. Looking forward to finding out more. Cheers
Great article.
Fan of his name too!
Fascinating article. Never realised what an incredible history the rotary had at the hands of Herr Wankel. If they really have got the reliability, emissions etc sorted then Mazda’s plans will be interesting to follow. Would love to have driven one of the company’s rotary models. The RX8 sounds most entertaining.
Weren’t Jaguar planning something similar but using a small jet turbine in place of the rotary? Would like to hear that in action.
This seems turbine seems to be in development:
Weren’t Jaguar planning something similar but using a small jet turbine in place of the rotary? Would like to hear that in action.
Jaguar was looking at it years ago, they had it on a concept car that they tested on top gear, was a great idea, BUT noisy as hell! Guessing they haven’t taken it forward though.
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2023 - Hyundai Kona Electric UltimateThanks, folks. My guess would be that the gas turbine will not make it into vehicles just yet, if at all. Shame. I just like the engineering of an engine with one moving part (-ish). Also like the sound they make.
Thanks, folks. My guess would be that the gas turbine will not make it into vehicles just yet, if at all. Shame. I just like the engineering of an engine with one moving part (-ish). Also like the sound they make.
This is the Jag C-X75, they abandoned it as uneconomic
https://phys.org/news/2010-10-jaguars-electric-concept-supercar-.html
Previous Motability Cars
2006 - 2009 Skoda Superb VR6 2.0tdi
2009 - 2012 Citroen C5 2.0tdi VTR Nav
2012 - 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5dci tekna
2015 - 2018 Ford Kuga 2.0tdi Titanium X
2018 - 2021 BMW 220d X drive 2 Series Active Luxury
2021 - 2023 Hyundai Kona Electric Premium SE
2023 - Hyundai Kona Electric UltimateI grew up near the Rover factory in Solihull. I recall they were experimenting with a gas turbine equipped P5 saloon in the late sixties – local lads used to report spotting it on their test track making the sort of noise you would expect…
Problem with gas turbines is they are slow to spool up so not much use in a conventional car having to wait when the lights change. However as a constant speed device it might happen.
I grew up near the Rover factory in Solihull. I recall they were experimenting with a gas turbine equipped P5 saloon in the late sixties – local lads used to report spotting it on their test track making the sort of noise you would expect… Problem with gas turbines is they are slow to spool up so not much use in a conventional car having to wait when the lights change. However as a constant speed device it might happen.
A version of that has turbine engine is in The Museum of Fire in Ceredigion. Fascinating little museum, well worth a visit if you’re ever in the area.
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/29/mazda-might-actually-be-onto-something/
Wigwam are you going all electric on us ?
I have notice the Mazda Hybrid seems to sparked an interest in you?
Used with synthetic fuel this could be a very clean EV (we use Aspen synthetic fuel in some of our equipment, no nasty pollution to breath in)
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Let’s not forget Rover’s Jet 1 which now lives, unmoving, in the Science Museum. Its lack of movement was too much for one Austrian enthusiast who has built a (jet powered) replica which fills Austrian streets (and tracks) with turbine “blue-note”. Go see here:
Turbines were also tried in HGVs. Had an uncle who was an engineer for Shell Mex. They gave him a jet-driven tanker to test out. His verdict was that it was most amusing if you could spare the time waiting for the turbine to spool up before moving off. At traffic lights this was embarrassing and noisy. Ended its days hauling loads between Shell refineries with no traffic light intervening.
The Museum of Fire is a place on my list, Bandit. To answer Oscarmax, I am intrigued by the technology of the Range Extender version of the MX-30, and while I’m not going to make any sacrifices in the cause of “zero carbon”, it could well be a car I could live with. Meanwhile I’m happy to burn petrol.
The Museum of Fire is a place on my list, Bandit. To answer Oscarmax, I am intrigued by the technology of the Range Extender version of the MX-30, and while I’m not going to make any sacrifices in the cause of “zero carbon”, it could well be a car I could live with. Meanwhile I’m happy to burn petrol.
It alright Wigwam I am not trying to convert you, many years ago I was given an NSU Ro 80 with a failed rotary engine and a few years later a Mazda RX engine both which I stripped down, it is a shame I am a big fan of the simplicity of the Rotary engine.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Suspect a small gas turbine could be used to drive a generator in a system similar to Honda iMev. They are generally most efficient at @ 85-95% max rpm. As an engine to provide thrust could be deemed a tad antisocial as EGT – exhaust gas temp – usually exceeds 500 deg C. On a GE 90 powered 777 out of mile high Denver once saw 1050 deg C. On take off.
But the waste exhaust gas could be run through a heat exchanger and heat the car and save the battery.
Hi Wigwam,
that would be some heat exchanger! The hot gas isn’t waste, it provides the thrust on a pure jet engine. with a Twin spool/ triple spool (RR RB211,Trent) the LP turbine drives the big fan at the front and most of the air bypasses the core compressor/combustion/turbines and provides a large amount of thrust. Such technology doesn’t come cheap. A Trent 1000 allegedly costs $42 million. So sad to see production halted and all those 1000s of brilliant engineers up in Derby furloughed. There are many more technical demerits for use in a road vehicle. A very small single spool gas turbine driving a generator suppling a brushless DC motor could work, but would likely be enclosed in steel or carbon fibre casing for fire and turbine failure damage limitation. Hard to see it being cost effective. Sorry, the Honda system is called eHEV. Just love these acronyms. Remember the NSU with its striking aerodynamic body. Daddy of modern Audis.
But the waste exhaust gas could be run through a heat exchanger and heat the car and save the battery.
The Rotary ICE would require liquid cooling heat would be diverted through a 4 way valve to the vehicles cabin, recycling the exhaust gas heat as per VW Beetle proved very inefficient.
To enable the Rotary engine to behave like a diesel engine (i.e GDI) the fuel will have to injected directly into the combustion chamber as per modern diesel engine, you also need to maintain a fuel velocity speed between 80-110m/s for maximum efficiency.
I have only briefly looked at your link my brain is a bit exhausted at the moment, the waste gas would need to run a turbo to increasing the air pressure above 14.69 pounds per square inch (1 bar) to produce a cleaner more efficient burn.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
Opps ignore my post you guys are discussing gas turbines.
Unfortunately I have suffered a brain injury and occasionally I get confused and often say the wrong thing.
No, no. Gas turbines was a deviation. You carry on!
Early VW Beetle heaters were seriously hot. The screen vents were in the corner where the tax disk was normally fixed. If you put it there it would melt. As would rubber soled shoes if too near the front footwell vents.
Hi Wigwam,
Spookily, having mentioned a 777 takeoff out of Denver – mine were @20 years ago- today’s media contains some dramatic footage of an engine suffering catastrophic failure. Being mounted on a strut allows fuel,hydraulic,pneumatic and electrical isolation, minimises collateral damage and a subsequent safe single engine landing – pilot skill required! Hence my point regarding their suitability for use in a car.
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