Article – Mazda might actually be onto something.

  • This topic has 20 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 1 week, 4 days ago by Clipped wings.
Viewing 20 replies - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)
  • Author
    Replies
  • #140400 Reply
    Tharg
    Participant

    Brilliant piece, Wigwam. Always been intrigued by the Wankel rotary but knew very little. Always seemed like an original piece of engineering. Looking forward to finding out more. Cheers

    #140431 Reply
    Russ

    Great article.

    Fan of his name too!

    #140536 Reply
    Tharg
    Participant

    Fascinating article. Never realised what an incredible history the rotary had at the hands of Herr Wankel. If they really have got the reliability, emissions etc sorted then Mazda’s plans will be interesting to follow. Would love to have driven one of the company’s rotary models. The RX8 sounds most entertaining.

    Weren’t Jaguar planning something similar but using a small jet turbine in place of the rotary? Would like to hear that in action.

    #140538 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant
    #140539 Reply
    Intranicity
    Participant

    Weren’t Jaguar planning something similar but using a small jet turbine in place of the rotary? Would like to hear that in action.

    Jaguar was looking at it years ago, they had it on a concept car that they tested on top gear, was a great idea, BUT noisy as hell!  Guessing they haven’t taken it forward though.

    Previous Motability Cars
    2006 - 2009 Skoda Superb VR6 2.0tdi
    2009 - 2012 Citroen C5 2.0tdi VTR Nav
    2012 - 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5dci tekna
    2015 - 2018 Ford Kuga 2.0tdi Titanium X
    2018 - 2021 BMW 220d X drive 2 Series Active Luxury

    #140550 Reply
    Tharg
    Participant

    Thanks, folks. My guess would be that the gas turbine will not make it into vehicles just yet, if at all. Shame. I just like the engineering of an engine with one moving part (-ish). Also like the sound they make.

    #140557 Reply
    Intranicity
    Participant

    Thanks, folks. My guess would be that the gas turbine will not make it into vehicles just yet, if at all. Shame. I just like the engineering of an engine with one moving part (-ish). Also like the sound they make.

    This is the Jag C-X75, they abandoned it as uneconomic

    https://phys.org/news/2010-10-jaguars-electric-concept-supercar-.html

    Previous Motability Cars
    2006 - 2009 Skoda Superb VR6 2.0tdi
    2009 - 2012 Citroen C5 2.0tdi VTR Nav
    2012 - 2015 Nissan Qashqai 1.5dci tekna
    2015 - 2018 Ford Kuga 2.0tdi Titanium X
    2018 - 2021 BMW 220d X drive 2 Series Active Luxury

    #140567 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    I grew up near the Rover factory in Solihull.  I recall they were experimenting with a gas turbine equipped P5 saloon in the late sixties – local lads used to report spotting it on their test track making the sort of noise you would expect…

    Problem with gas turbines is they are slow to spool up so not much use in a conventional car having to wait when the lights change.  However as a constant speed device it might happen.

    #140575 Reply
    Bandit
    Participant

    I grew up near the Rover factory in Solihull. I recall they were experimenting with a gas turbine equipped P5 saloon in the late sixties – local lads used to report spotting it on their test track making the sort of noise you would expect… Problem with gas turbines is they are slow to spool up so not much use in a conventional car having to wait when the lights change. However as a constant speed device it might happen.

    A version of that has turbine engine is in The Museum of Fire in Ceredigion. Fascinating little museum, well worth a visit if you’re ever in the area.

    #140579 Reply
    Oscarmax
    Participant

    https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/29/mazda-might-actually-be-onto-something/

    Wigwam are you going all electric on us ?

    I have notice the Mazda Hybrid seems to sparked an interest in you?

    Used with synthetic fuel this could be a very clean EV (we use Aspen synthetic fuel in some of our equipment, no nasty pollution to breath in)


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #140580 Reply
    Tharg
    Participant

    Let’s not forget Rover’s Jet 1 which now lives, unmoving, in the Science Museum. Its lack of movement was too much for one Austrian enthusiast who has built a (jet powered) replica which fills Austrian streets (and tracks) with turbine “blue-note”. Go see here:

    https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2020/06/28/the-worlds-only-turbine-powered-rover-jet-1-replica-built-by-a-25-year-old-who-tracks-it

    Turbines were also tried in HGVs. Had an uncle who was an engineer for Shell Mex. They gave him a jet-driven tanker to test out. His verdict was that it was most amusing if you could spare the time waiting for the turbine to spool up before moving off. At traffic lights this was embarrassing and noisy. Ended its days hauling loads between Shell refineries with no traffic light intervening.

    #140583 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    The Museum of Fire is a place on my list, Bandit. To answer Oscarmax, I am intrigued by the technology of the Range Extender version of the MX-30, and while I’m not going to make any sacrifices in the cause of “zero carbon”,  it could well be a car I could live with.  Meanwhile I’m happy to burn petrol.

    #140588 Reply
    Oscarmax
    Participant

    The Museum of Fire is a place on my list, Bandit. To answer Oscarmax, I am intrigued by the technology of the Range Extender version of the MX-30, and while I’m not going to make any sacrifices in the cause of “zero carbon”, it could well be a car I could live with. Meanwhile I’m happy to burn petrol.

    It alright Wigwam I am not trying to convert you, many years ago I was given an NSU Ro 80 with a failed rotary engine and a few years later a Mazda RX engine both which I stripped down, it is a shame I am a big fan of the simplicity of the Rotary engine.

     

     


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #140590 Reply
    Clipped wings

    Suspect a small gas turbine could be used to drive a generator in a system similar to Honda iMev. They are generally most efficient at @ 85-95% max rpm. As an engine to provide thrust could be deemed a tad antisocial as EGT – exhaust gas temp – usually exceeds 500 deg C. On a GE 90 powered 777 out of mile high Denver once saw 1050 deg C. On take off.

    #140591 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    But the waste exhaust gas could be run through a heat exchanger and heat the car and save the battery.

    #140595 Reply
    Clipped wings

    Hi Wigwam,

    that would be some heat exchanger! The hot gas isn’t waste, it provides the thrust on a pure jet engine. with a Twin spool/ triple spool (RR RB211,Trent) the LP turbine drives the big fan at the front and most of the air bypasses the core compressor/combustion/turbines and provides a large amount of thrust. Such technology doesn’t come cheap. A Trent 1000 allegedly costs $42 million. So sad to see production halted and all those 1000s of brilliant engineers up in Derby furloughed. There are many more technical demerits for use in a road vehicle. A very small single spool gas turbine driving a generator suppling a brushless DC motor could work, but would likely be enclosed in steel or carbon fibre casing for fire and turbine failure damage limitation. Hard to see it being cost effective.  Sorry, the Honda system is called eHEV. Just love these acronyms. Remember the NSU with its striking aerodynamic body. Daddy of modern Audis.

    #140596 Reply
    Oscarmax
    Participant

    But the waste exhaust gas could be run through a heat exchanger and heat the car and save the battery.

    The Rotary ICE would require liquid cooling heat would be diverted through a 4 way valve to the vehicles cabin, recycling the exhaust gas heat as per VW Beetle proved very inefficient.

    To enable the Rotary engine to behave like a diesel engine (i.e GDI) the fuel will have to injected directly into the combustion chamber as per modern diesel engine, you also need to maintain a fuel velocity speed between 80-110m/s for maximum efficiency.

    I have only briefly looked at your link my brain is a bit exhausted at the moment, the waste gas would need to run a turbo to increasing the air pressure above 14.69 pounds per square inch (1 bar) to produce a cleaner more efficient burn.

     


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #140598 Reply
    Oscarmax
    Participant

    Opps ignore my post you guys are discussing gas turbines.


    In 2005 I suffered a brain injury which has left me with mental and physical disabilities.
    Unfortunately I do get confused and get things wrong, so I apologise in advance.

    #140600 Reply
    Wigwam
    Participant

    No, no. Gas turbines was a deviation. You carry on!

    Early VW Beetle heaters were seriously hot.  The screen vents were in the corner where the tax disk was normally fixed. If you put it there it would melt.  As would rubber soled shoes if too near the front footwell vents.

    #140714 Reply
    Clipped wings

    Hi Wigwam,

    Spookily, having mentioned a 777 takeoff out of Denver – mine were @20 years ago- today’s media contains some dramatic footage of an engine suffering catastrophic failure. Being mounted on a strut allows fuel,hydraulic,pneumatic and electrical isolation, minimises collateral damage and a subsequent safe single engine landing – pilot skill required! Hence my point regarding their suitability for use in a car.

Viewing 20 replies - 1 through 20 (of 20 total)
Reply To: Article – Mazda might actually be onto something.
Your information: