A word of advice on Kia Sportage GPF (Petrol Warning Light)

  • Creator
    Topic
  • #201527
    MAX66
    Participant

      Hi everybody just to let you know if you have a Sportage on Motability. These cars I have just found out are fitted with a Gasoline Particulate Filter (GPF) or as we know it Petrol Particulate Filter form circa 2018 just like diesels which have a DPF.

      If you are doing low miles and stop/start without the engine warming up properly it will clog up with carbon deposits and the warning lights will come on. To avoid this take the car for at least one good 30min run per week on the motorway to burn off. If the light comes on the dealer will tell you to keep running it until it clears. Lots of petrol will be burned in the process (trust me). This, I feel should have been highlighted better, especially to low mileage mobility customers when ordering their car to avoid this in the first place.

      Other manufacturers do not seem to have a problem that I can see but Hyundai/Kia their are lots of discussion threads and youtube videos about it.

      To point out also, the car will operate as normal so no worries there and eventually Kia will have to look at but in the meantime it can be very annoying to see.

      Having a knowledge of the car trade I suspect in the future it will become so annoying to Kia they will either change the design of the filter or change supplier.

      Hope this helps some.

       

      Max,

    Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 100 total)
    • Author
      Replies
    • #201529
      Wigwam
      Participant

        That surprises me Max, because particulate filters on petrol cars work at much higher temperatures than those on diesel cars and vapourise any ash before it builds up.  Both our current and last petrol car had them trouble free.  What on earth have Kia done wrong?

        #201532
        MAX66
        Participant

          God knows Wigwam, but my brother in Australia who is a mechanic has advised me it is only cars in the EU fitted with a GPF but needs to check more.

          I went through one full tank going up and down on the motorway to get the lights to go off driving at 65-70mph in 5th gear not 6th (high revs) to burn off off. Dealer advised that is very, very common. Some even advise to stay in 4th lol

          Max.

          #201533
          MAX66
          Participant

            Oh and I never had this problem with a 2019 Astra.

            #201768
            gilders
            Participant

              Very common with KIA, in fact my MHEV Sportage has this warning light on at the moment. I’m trying to clear it.

              Bear in mind I’ve only done 1100 miles and approx. half those miles being on the motorway. Admittedly, it’s been a couple of weeks since motorway driving and there has been some short trips in cold weather. But still, surely the car should cope with 2 weeks of driving on non-high speed roads.

              I have the “top-of-the range” GTLS model and love all the features of it. But soon after picking it up I began regretting picking it as the mpg is terrible at 29mpg since owning. This would be acceptable for a large vehicle in stop start journeys, but this average is including about 500 motorway miles.

              My previous Motability car was going to be a Golf GTD, but knowing the issue with DPFs and short journeys, I chose the petrol GT. I sold that car to help fund the AP of this Sportage and cover for Christmas and energy costs over winter.

              I am now driving in a car that only does 25mpg now it’s colder and I have to aimlessly drive around burning fuel in an already inefficient car to clear the filter.

              I have read of many others with this problem and doing what the manual and dealerships tell you (drive at 50mph+, none stop, in a low enough gear to keep engine revs up to 2-3000rpm), does not clear it. The filter is considered a consumable and not covered under warranty. People are having to take their vehicles in fr a forced regen. Which uses more fuel yet again. Many are paying for this “fix”, although a lot seem to be getting done as a “gesture of goodwill”. The problem is that the fault re-occurs.

              It is suggested that the vehicle is driven for at least 30 mins on motorway EACH week. That’s just not reasonable imo.

              Trying to resolve this problem I’ve read similar issues on some Fords, but that seems to be a few years ago. All recent issues relate to KIA and it’s sister company, Hyundai.

              Everything I have read about GPFs state that they regenerate not during constant high temperature whilst being driven (like DPFs), but they regenerate after engine reaches normal working temp and the accelerator isn’t being used. This is because the lack of fuel, but hot gases burn the soot away. Therefore, the directions given by KIA (to drive non stop) seem incorrect, which could explain why customers are having to take their car to dealerships.

              For those of you who have the HEV (or privately bought a PHEV), I haven’t come across owners with this issue. HEVs do have the GPF, but during the periods where an engine would produce the most particles  corresponds to when your HEV is likely to go in to EV mode.

              I really regret choosing this car, but what are my options? Can I refuse the car if this problem reoccurs? The car is suitable for my disability needs, but I can’t afford the poor mpg and now knowing I have to aimlessly drive around just isn’t financially possible.

              #201776
              Wigwam
              Participant

                Sad state of affairs gilders.  What happens if you ignore this warning light and carry on as you want to?  Does the car go into limp mode or breakdown?

                #201779
                gilders
                Participant

                  At the moment the GPF light is lit permanently, with a message informing me to continue driving for filter to regenerate. During this period, if filter doesn’t clear, the car then runs lean, forcing more O2 through exhaust which worsens mpg even further. The next stage –

                  Taken from the manual – “If the GPF warning light stays on or the warning message “Check exhaust system” pops up even after driving at recommended speed and for recommended hours, visit a professional workshop and check the GPF system. Kia recommends to visit an authorized Kia dealer/service partner. Constant driving with the GPF warning light on can damage the GPF system and undermine fuel economy.”

                  I did read somewhere that it does go in to limp mode, but can’t find it in manual, so not sure.

                   

                  #201780
                  gilders
                  Participant

                    Another owner’s experience –

                    “I had driven just 998 miles which consisted of some urban mile but two trips to Manchester airport and back which added approximately 240 mile plus a trip to Ashbourne and back 70 miles and a 145 mile trip to Carlisle where the issue of the exhaust GPF filter warning light illumination developed at 998 miles.
                    I then drove around 60 miles around the Lakes and then another 130 miles home at over 3000 rpm. The light was still on when I returned home. I have spent three weeks trying to get the light off.
                    I visited the KIA dealership in Stafford and was horrified at the comments and attitude of the guy on the service reception desk he was very dismissive of my concerns and said it could not possibly be a problem with a faulty filter? I thought that was an odd thing to say to a customer and he offered me no help with any solution or inspection for my 12 week old car that clearly has an obvious fault. He went on to tell me now the light had been on for so long it would be difficult to get off? Another odd thing to say without offering a solution. He added it can often happen after 1k miles depending on driving style? He mentioned a lot of urban driving is the issue?
                    My history since purchasing this car is anything but urban. He told me the car can and will eventually go into limp mode and there is a substantial charge to put this right. I then spoke to my sales person who called a service engineer who advised a route to drive of around 15 miles and that I should drive in 3rd gear and about 3500rpm I have driven the said route 3 times plus approximately 80 miles up and down a 15 mile stretch of the motorway.
                    I have used over half a tank of fuel driving aimlessly and for nothing as the light is still on. The car also is not running smoothly and the engine judders from time to time. Not at all happy with this new February 2022 KIA Sportage (new model) with my previous KIA Sportage I have two and a half years trouble free motoring and now I have a car that is not running well and I am told this issue is chargeable and not covered under warranty?
                    Shock horror how can a clearly faulty Petrol Particulate filter not be covered?? KIA seem to have a filter that is not fit for purpose as I see this has been an issue for a number of owners of the new model Sportage… My driving style for the first 998 miles of my new cars life should not have caused my car to develop this issue.”

                    #201843
                    MAX66
                    Participant

                      I have done about 215 miles up and down a very quiet stretch of motorway. Ten miles to roundabout, turn around back to next roundabout keeping car at about 2500 RPM with no sign of the light going off. No sign yet of performance dropping but hitting me hard in the pocket.

                      I have decided to run the car as I run it and if it breaks down then get recovery to uplift. There is no point in me wasting money to solve a Kia issue.

                      Overall, I would not let this put me off the car as it is fantastic and I am sure Kia when it happens enough will issue some sort of recall. Having worked many years ago in a large car manufacturer warranty department they wait until a certain amount have developed the fault.

                      My suspicion is they already know and maybe cars after a certain chassis number will have a different type or manufacturer of GPF. I cannot see Kia wanting to harm there brand name with something like this.

                      I will keep updated.

                       

                      Max.

                      #201844
                      Wigwam
                      Participant

                        Max, that would be my attitude too. It can’t be right for users to have to jump through hoops doing ridiculous journeys to solve a problem seemingly unique to KIA / Hyundai.

                        #201847
                        gilders
                        Participant

                          @MAX66

                          I’ve read of quite a lot of non-HEVs suffering from this and not even one of them have managed to clear the filter themselves and had to visit dealership, who then burn a load of fuel to clear it. I’m hoping some have managed to clear it, but haven’t posted their story.

                          I’m going to drive from West Yorkshire to Blackpool and back today. I don’t actually want to go to Blackpool today, but just trying to think of reasons to go on a long run.

                          I am very nervous as I don’t want to set off limp mode whilst on the motorway. If that happens and I don’t cause an accident, I’ll be outside waiting in near freezing temperature for a recovery truck. I won’t bore people with my medical history, but freezing temperatures don’t mix well.

                          Although you state “I have decided to run the car as I run it and if it breaks down then get recovery to uplift. There is no point in me wasting money to solve a Kia issue.”   It cost end up costing us money. The manual states that continued use with the PPF lit can cause damage and “undermine” fuel economy. So we will end up paying in higher fuel costs. My avg. 29mpg has already dropped to 25mpg.

                           

                          #201859
                          ChrisK
                          Participant

                            Apparently reading the item here in, it seems the regen for petrol is not done in the same way as for diesel regens so maybe that’s where folk could go wrong. I’m changing back from diesel (that I’ve never had any problems with), to petrol so read this thread with interest as I thought I was escaping the short journey worry.

                            To clear a petrol filter you have to use engine braking apparently, read on…

                            https://tinyurl.com/yn88w7zw

                            #201860
                            MAX66
                            Participant

                              Interesting Chris thanks for that will give it a go,

                               

                              Max

                              #201884
                              gilders
                              Participant

                                @ChrisK that was one of the items I was alluding to a few posts back when I wrote –

                                “Everything I have read about GPFs state that they regenerate not during constant high temperature whilst being driven (like DPFs), but they regenerate after engine reaches normal working temp and the accelerator isn’t being used. This is because the lack of fuel, but hot gases burn the soot away. Therefore, the directions given by KIA (to drive non stop) seem incorrect, which could explain why customers are having to take their car to dealerships.”

                                I do have some good news. After not finding a single person online who has managed to clear the filter without taking it to a dealership, I managed yesterday. I’ll post below.

                                #201885
                                ChrisK
                                Participant

                                  Hi Max

                                  After posting that item I noticed its dated, I think, 2002 so I would think that information doesn’t apply any more but worth a try I suppose.

                                  Apparently my soon to be delivered VW has one of these petrol filters and there are no reports of any problems with them so I think its a KIA problem with there sensor not working properly more than a problem with the filter but I know what it is like when you have something slightly wrong or intermitted and explaining to the dealer to do something about it.

                                  I had or should say “have” a slight problem with my car (over 4 years old now) where it constantly pulls everso slightly to the left and took it back to the dealer with just a few hundred miles on the clock to be told its within the limits and then they babbled on about the camber of the road that I replied “do you think after nearly 50 years of driving I don’t know about the camber of the road”. Still like it to this day after 2 x MOT’s and 4 x services, but what can we do.

                                  #201886
                                  ChrisK
                                  Participant

                                    Hi gilders

                                    Yes your right and I never noticed that particular item I posted is 20 years old what I can make of it so the tech has moved on since then I’m sure.

                                    #201887
                                    gilders
                                    Participant

                                      How I cleared the PPF/GPF-

                                      I did a combination of KIA’s recommendation and info I’ve read regarding PPF/GPFs-

                                      KIA’s instructions are to maintain the following-

                                      • 30 mins +
                                      • 50mph+
                                      • 1,500-4,000

                                      I did this for 35-40mins and the warning message persisted. Knowing the engine would be very hot now, my next aim was to fully release accelerator, moving into left hand lane and letting the car drop speed to 50mph. Fortunately, many stretches of the M62 are hilly, giving me the opportunity to accelerate up hill and “roll” downhill without my car slowing down too quickly. The warning message disappeared after 10-15mins.

                                      I believe that so long as engine temp is high (which could be achieved sooner than KIA’s 30mins+) the engine braking is what actually clears/burns the sooty deposits.

                                      Although I am pleased that I have managed to clear the filter, if this problem reoccurs, I’ll have to look at my options. In an already inefficient car, I can afford to be driving around just to clear a fault.

                                      #201894
                                      Rene
                                      Participant

                                        You’re correct, and you’ve figured out the “correct” way of clearing it.

                                        I remember reading about this very issue in another brand (ecoboost engines). You can regenerate the filter two ways, or rather, there’s two options – one of which relies on the car itself doing its job.

                                        The first one is as Kia describes, drive forever and hope that the car puts the engine into a “lean state” by altering timing. It’s supposed to do that, but clearly it doesn’t really work.

                                        The second (yours) solution is generating the same effect, except you’re not relying on the car to alter timing. By decelerating through engine braking, you increase the oxygen in engine and exhaust – the same outcome as changing timing to run lean. It only tries to run lean to increase oxygen flow through the exhaust, which increases the temperature inside.

                                        You can absolutely get that effect by accelerating to 75mph, and dropping down to 50mph through engine braking repeatedly (from high revs).

                                        If you don’t have hills to coast off of, just accelerate to 75mph in third/fourth gear (whatever leaves you at around 5500-6500rpm at 75mph), and then engine brake down to 50mph multiple times. Probably best done at night, would be my suggestion.

                                        That all said, this is a solution to something that shouldn’t be a problem in the first place.

                                        Prior: SEAT Ateca Xcellence Lux 1.5 TSI DSG MY19
                                        Current: VW Golf GTE PHEV DSG MY23

                                        #201895
                                        MAX66
                                        Participant

                                          Great folks, hopefully I am going to give it a go later today and if not tomorrow and will let you know how I get on. Thankfully, this is turning into a good info post for all concerned with GPF’s

                                          Max.

                                          #201896
                                          gilders
                                          Participant

                                            Good luck MAX. Hope it works for you.

                                            #201938
                                            kezo
                                            Participant

                                              maintaing highish revs in a low gear without stopping for 30-40 min is more akin to cleaning DPF. Where as with a GPF frequent deaccelerating creates more oxygen which burns at a higher temperature, hopefuly clearing the GPF.

                                              I have the Hyundai Tuscon which has the same engine as the Sportage and never had a problem since I have had it (March) and covered just under 5k miles, nor has it really seen a motorway Previous car was a Skoda Superb 190tdi and I cant say I ever had an issue with the DPF, but there again I’m never in a rush to get into sixth gear (manual). I take it you all have auto that wants to get in as high gear soon as possible depending how you drive it. Try drving in manual mode now and again.

                                              @gliders Yes the mpg is sh!t to say the least I’m averaging between 26-29, if Im lucky 32. On a run visiting parents I can get around 40 and the long term average is 32.

                                              May as well had a V8 and at least had some fun ?

                                              #203769
                                              Paul Barton

                                                I have a 22 plate kia sportage petrol currently driven 4 5k miles filter issue now been displayed 3 times dealer cleared display first time second time I cleared myself with 50 mile drive on motorway in 4th gear at 70mph 1 month later exhaust filter regenerate display back on very disappointed driving far for no purpose but to try and clear a fault will be visiting dealership and then contacting Kia direct for resolution

                                                #204160
                                                CP

                                                  Hi. I have the GT S line auto non plug in hybrid on order – I’m not desperate car wise and mine is due in next 3 months – would you cancel?

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  #204176
                                                  kezo
                                                  Participant

                                                    Hi. I have the GT S line auto non plug in hybrid on order – I’m not desperate car wise and mine is due in next 3 months – would you cancel?

                                                    Diffcult one that as its a nice car. What type of driving do you and are you prepared to take it for a blast should should it happen to you.

                                                    As you can see from my previous post Ive never had a problem with the exact same engine in the Tuscon, but who’s to say it won’t happen to me. MPG isn’t the best with them either.

                                                    The good thing a fair few nice cars added today should you cancel, AP’s are still high though.

                                                    #204195
                                                    CP

                                                      I do about 8000 miles a year, once a fortnight a 30 mile round trip on A roads, 5 weekly trips of less than 5 miles round trip and the big trip once every 3 months or so of 200- 300 miles.  I wouldn’t have ordered a diesel due to the mileage and type of trips I do.  Normally I would expect the fortnightly trip to be enough to keep the battery going and blow out any gremlins as it’s an almost continuous 60 mph.

                                                       

                                                      #204328
                                                      gilders
                                                      Participant

                                                        @CP, by “non plug in hybrid” I presume you mean a hybrid, aka full – hybrid? If so, I’d keep the order. I’ve read MANY stories of MHEV owners (such as myself) with this issue, but only 1 of a hybrid. I’m actually suspicious that the 1 story from an hybrid owner, was actually a MHEV (mild – hybrid) owner thinking that their MHEV was considered an hybrid.

                                                        If you have a MHEV on order, then it’s a tough choice. I paid £3,299 AP for my GTLS MHEV AWD and even though I’ve found the mpg to be awful and also suffered from the clogged PPF/GPF, the cheapest vehicle on the scheme that I would pick over my car is the plug-in Tuscon Ultimate and at £5,599 AP, it’s out of my price range.

                                                      Viewing 25 replies - 1 through 25 (of 100 total)
                                                      • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.